Table manners

1955

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Some rules exist to give people a feeling of control, some to control others, some are just common sense.
 

Obsessed

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I think you're saying a similar thing to what @P Thought suggested but leaning toward formality?
Ironic considering your electricity comes from old junkyard parts, but hey, philosophy and values don't always match the hardware!
And of course classy is far from the same a lux style wealth.



Well yeah, which is what I meant by the dynamic range both my wife and I have in social situations.
She can go way further than me into the realm that @getbent and @johnny k were just harrowingly navigating.
I can't handle that truth! But my wife loves the foul and the stanky talk.

Growing up, I was in mixed cultures where the little fishing village also had artist community which brought in rich society types.
Some old folks I knew had grown up without electricity.
One now 93yo man who played a father figure role when I was a kid, had been schooled in a one room schoolhouse.
Many old timers could barely spell and would paint a sign with the S backwards etc.

Then there was a French gentleman who had recently bought a castle in France, and also owned a house in town.
He explained that after he bought the castle, he opened a door he hadn't gone through yet and discovered a whole 'nother 50 rooms he didn't know about.
So I learned to behave in concert with whatever class or style of folks I was around, from a few who navigated both ends of the spectrum.
In formal dining I was yelled at by my Mother, usually "elbows off the table!", as often as required to train me up.
Manners in speech too, fairly strict and I'm glad for that, but when moving through the other local worlds I changed my speech even to the point where I was subconsciously using more of a Maine accent.
I would say Ayuh in some company but not in other company, because culture.

Did I want to fit in and avoid being judged?
Or was I trying to respect the others in that community?
Did I want to avoid placing myself seemingly above the less educated?
Probably all those reasons but without conscious planning.

Of course we may first enter an unfamiliar culture or community and not know how to behave.
Living in NYC that was a long term challenge.
Doing business with Chinese in Chinatown, Hasidic Jews in the camera district, and a couple of other cultures I forget, business practices commonly involved seeming insults. But in time I saw that they treated each other that way and later were laughing, so no offense was intended when a Chinese vendor yelled at me or a Hasid insulted some camera gear I was selling etc etc.

I also forget now but there was one culture that took looking them in the eye as as offensive aggression, and another culture that took NOT looking them in the eye as offensive. Those two cultures were commonly police officers, and late in my NYC tenure I did a lot of business with the police, so I was advised to learn those ways.
We may at times think we're being judged for this when really our offense was that.
I don’t see the irony between good table manners and using old junkyard parts to produce electricity at all. Superficially, no one in the house could detect a difference, but furthermore, I am exhibiting better table manners with the Earth than most people.:cool:
 

uriah1

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I wonder if drummers that hold their forks correctly also hold their drum sticks correctly. Lol. I guess that is passé as they say
 

telemnemonics

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I don’t see the irony between good table manners and using old junkyard parts to produce electricity at all. Superficially, no one in the house could detect a difference, but furthermore, I am exhibiting better table manners with the Earth than most people.:cool:

Well right, I don't see it as ironic either, and even less so since you put it in terms of table manners toward the Earth.

I was referring more to something we might call high society where proper behavior is required.
When I worked for Paul Rudolph, he had Christmas parties at his home, and as a very rich famous society guy, he invited mostly old money rich society types. But also a few workers in a shop that made lighting fixtures, including the part time shipping guy.
We had to go straight to the party from the workshop, in our dirty clothes.
Oddly, he did not invite his crew of architects in their clean white shirts.

From a broader view, he was probably the top architect in the world for his best and last years, while designing buildings that made people uncomfortable. His home had details like floors that turned into couch cushions, and floors that were clear plexiglass, so guests would stumble and fall. He watched and took great delight at the discomfort of these rich society folks.
And it was explained to me that he brought his few dirty blue collar workers into the party in their work clothes specifically to upset the society guests, who found our kind distasteful.
That was what I was trying to connect, proper society vs dirty used machinery.

Over the years I've worked in many very rich peoples homes, and would not characterize them as all being the same.
Instead I'm pulling up an image of the most extreme for the sake of contrast.
 

telemnemonics

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Our idea of table manners appear to be quite different to those across the pond.

Here's one I forget but I think might be a continental divide?

I believe as a kid I was taught to cut meat on my plate with fork in LH and knife in RH, then put the knife down and swap the fork to my RH to take the bite.

Is that done in the UK?
I'm pretty sure in some cultures it's viewed as bad manners to simply take the bite with fork still in the LH, while in other cultures that's deemed good manners or at least acceptable.
 

telemnemonics

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I wonder if drummers that hold their forks correctly also hold their drum sticks correctly. Lol. I guess that is passé as they say

Good point!

I have to try really hard to not judge those who hold the fork like a fist.
Even rednecks and blue collars oughtta know how to hold the fork!
But I don't hold my LH drum stick properly, not palm up.
Maybe because I was taught table manners but not taught drummer manners?
Actually I did get some drum lessons from Dennis Charles who took lessons from Ed Blackwell and still had the practice pad Ed had made him. Guess those lessons didn't stick!
I broke my left wrist and the proper grip doesn't work for me.
Plus I guess for the first few years, the drums themselves were my only drum teacher.

Interesting comparison though!
I wonder where the origins of RH palm down and LH palm up originated?
I'm sure there must be well documented etymology of hand use?
 

Archtops

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OA makes me put my elbow on the table so my food doesn’t shake off the fork. Now I have to eat at the little kids table.
 

Oxidao

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uh!, 6 pages long now. Sorry not to read.

Generally speaking, imo it's a matter of respect with the rest (and yourself). Most of the 'rules' are easy to follow.

But yeah, rules can be broken. I've got a rule for doing so. Just talk it loud, or asking a rethoric question.
- I'm gonna use my fingers for this.
- Do you mind if I dip my bread on the serving bowl?

Problem is when you don't know that you are breaking 'rules', or wich occasions to apply them or not.
 
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johnny k

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In Japan you’re expected to slurp loudly when sucking up ramen noodles, and to keep going until everything you pulled up with your chopsticks gets into yer noodlehole.

I know from personal experience that Japanese people get uncomfortable around silent noodle eaters.

It requires very judicious chopstick work and impeccable breath control!

in through the mouth and out through the nose
would i disapoint them a lot eating with a fork ? i can't handle sticks.
 

BigDaddyLH

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would i disapoint them a lot eating with a fork ? i can't handle sticks.

It just takes a little practice. When we went to Japan my oldest daughter was helpless on chopsticks. She'd try to use them and they would go flying through the air :lol:. Nowhere we went to had any forks that I could see. But by the end, she could pick up a single grain of rice with chopsticks.
 

johnny k

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It just takes a little practice. When we went to Japan my oldest daughter was helpless on chopsticks. She'd try to use them and they would go flying through the air :lol:. Nowhere we went to had any forks that I could see. But by the end, she could pick up a single grain of rice with chopsticks.
The thing is if i am really hungry, i don't feel like going through chopstick drills, i just need to fill the hole in my tummy!

I would probably get the hang of it though. Just be sure that i get my plate a bit earlier than yours, so that we can finish at approximately the same time.
 




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