Swapping P-90s for Mini-humbuckers in a Epi Les Paul

OmegaWoods

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I have a 2005 Epi Gold Top MIK that is a great guitar except for the muddy P-90 pickups and scratchy pots. I have been edging closer to buying a Les Paul but now I’m thinking about just replacing the P-90s with mini humbuckers and calling it good.

What mini-humbuckers are worth looking at? I’m capable of soldering and changing out the pots, switches, whatever even though I’ve not done it before. Any recommendations for what to use for this kind of project? Any circuit mods you recommend?

Sorry for the noob questions but I don’t want to buy sub-par stuff then have to buy it again because I didn’t know what I was doing (I’ve heard that this sometimes happens to other people although it’s never, ever happened to me.)

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

I’ll post a pic of her when I find/take one.
 

stomped box

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Ya know, the P-90s that were in this Less Paul I previously had, a '10 50s Tribute, really blew compared to the ones in my '20 LP Standard 50s, and I wouldn't be surprised if neither did the Epi come standard with the finest P-90s in the land.

https://www.premierguitar.com/10-mini-humbuckers-to-try

The SD Antiquity II's aren't on this list but those would be the first ones I'd be thinking about.
 

charlie chitlin

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Do you have an ohm meter to check the resistance on the P90s?
The vast majority of Epi P90s sound good to me and are below 9ohm.
I'm a die-hard P90 guy and have had many from original 50's to modern Epi.
The ones in my $99 LP Special sound great.
I've had some that were over 13, and sounded awful to me.
If your pots are full-sized, they can just be cleaned.
There are those who claim that new pots, wiring and caps can make a "night and day" difference, but they are usually trying to sell you something.
I got booted from an LP forum for accusing a pot/cap/wire vendor of pedaling snake oil. :oops:
 

schmee

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I have a 2005 Epi Gold Top MIK that is a great guitar except for the muddy P-90 pickups and scratchy pots. I have been edging closer to buying a Les Paul but now I’m thinking about just replacing the P-90s with mini humbuckers and calling it good.

What mini-humbuckers are worth looking at? I’m capable of soldering and changing out the pots, switches, whatever even though I’ve not done it before. Any recommendations for what to use for this kind of project? Any circuit mods you recommend?

Sorry for the noob questions but I don’t want to buy sub-par stuff then have to buy it again because I didn’t know what I was doing (I’ve heard that this sometimes happens to other people although it’s never, ever happened to me.)

Any insights would be greatly appreciated!

I’ll post a pic of her when I find/take one.
The Gibson Minis are great and the SD Antiquity ll are almost identical. I have used them both. And have even mixed them.
Either are much better than the cheap imports. But the imports can be cool if you are looking for some grit/dirt.
Good Mini's are clean on both the lows and highs, and bright on the highs. Keep that in mind.
But maybe you should try some good P90's first? Gibson P90's often go for $125 +/- a set etc used and are killer pickups.
Some fun I had:
 
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telemnemonics

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The old Gibson min hums at around 6k dcr were too clear and thin toned for most players, then Gibson went all over the map winding bizarre hot mini's and never really went back to the early clear bright ones.
I prefer to go all the way to Firebirds but those are all over the map too.
For that matter, P-90s are all over the map and you might have the worst P-90s ever made in that guitar.

Don't judge the P-90 based on some used Epi crap pickups!
Epi did get better.

Most pickups of all types were lower winds back in the early days but after Dimarzio created the Super Distortion and a few other things happened, hot & muddy got cool.

Some players here will tell you their fave will be your fave too.
Many players here think old time Tele tone is "ice pick tone", so they NEED hotter more muddy pickups.
Are you sure you can handle the treble???

Shop around for used pickups, check specs and reviews to learn what they do.
You might have to buy several times to get ones your taste prefers.
The fickle pickup market is piled high with used pickups for sale, and many of us can't stand 2/3 of the expensive pickups any more than the cheap ones, because: wrong specs for our tastes.
 

10orgtr

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Member Barncaster winds pickups and seems to have a good handle on p90, minis and Firebird pickups. I would see what he has to say regarding the above and your needs.
Cheers,
Woody
 

NICQ

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Get Firebird pickups if you want clear and not muddy - mini humbuckers will still sound like humbuckers and have a lot of mids.. they are both the same size but are constructed differently (firebird has 2 blade magnets as coils)
 

Boreas

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You may first want to just try replacing your V pots, since they are scratchy anyway. May just need cleaned, but if you replace them, you can bump up the value of the pots to allow more highs through. Higher-value pots really help display a pickup's capabilities instead of strangling it. If 1M pots don't improve things, probably nothing will. Just replace one and see what happens. If you like it, replace the other.

Have you already tried adjusting pickup heights? That can make a big difference on a P-90 - or any pickup for that matter.
 
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Blues Twanger

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A good P90 shouldn't be muddy. Do you know the pot values inside?

Better pots of the appropriate value might be all you need, and as was said since you know you have at least one going bad I would start by replacing those. It might fix the issue and will be the cheapest first step.

If it still sounds muddy you could try vintage spec P90s or Mini Hums from any number of makers. You could spend $50 to $300 depending on what you want but int he end they all should be an improvement if the problem was the pickups.

Changing two things at once won't tell you which was the problem and sometimes makes for unnecessary 'upgrades' and wasted money. But if you do end up doing both pots and pickups you will know in the end you've made both a repair to the bad pots and upgrades to both the pots and pickups that should keep you rocking for many more years to come.
 
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Ron C

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I have a 2005 Epi Gold Top MIK that is a great guitar except for the muddy P-90 pickups and scratchy pots. I have been edging closer to buying a Les Paul but now I’m thinking about just replacing the P-90s with mini humbuckers and calling it good.
I'll go against the grain here. Those 10 little words you included about wanting to buy a Les Paul -- and by that I assume you mean a Gibson since you already have a very good Les Paul -- make me think you should hold off from a pickup change on your Epi.

No doubt a pickup swap on your Epi could hit the tonal goal you're looking for, but (sort of) reading between the lines it sounds like money you'd be diverting from what you really want: a Gibson. The value of an un modified Epi Gold Top + money spent on the pickup swap goes a long way toward a used (or new on sale) Gibson LP Special.
 

benderb9

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having recently (last 3 months) changed out a set of P-90's for mini-hums I bought in the late 80's at a guitar show for $40.00, there's a bit more to it than meets the eye. They do not mount the same though they are roughly the same size. Was it worth the extra effort/expense? In my case it really was. Parts I needed included the mounting bar kit and rings from StewMac (about $55.00 for the set of two each). I had to route the body out for the neck plate to get it low enough. It's not really complicated to do, mounting the bar but heck I'd never done it or seen it done before. Also I epoxied the height adjustment screws rather than soldering it. Yep I could have made my own mounting bars for a couple bucks and tapped them, gathered the screws etc but my time is worth something to me. It really is a weird way of mounting a pick up though. StewMac instructions here https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-i...-humbucker-mounting-bracket-set-instructions/
 

OmegaWoods

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I'll go against the grain here. Those 10 little words you included about wanting to buy a Les Paul -- and by that I assume you mean a Gibson since you already have a very good Les Paul -- make me think you should hold off from a pickup change on your Epi.

No doubt a pickup swap on your Epi could hit the tonal goal you're looking for, but (sort of) reading between the lines it sounds like money you'd be diverting from what you really want: a Gibson. The value of an un modified Epi Gold Top + money spent on the pickup swap goes a long way toward a used (or new on sale) Gibson LP Special.

Thanks, @Ron C , I think Gibson's are great but I don't really want to buy another guitar. I have a perfectly solid LP platform with pickups that I didn't bond with and pots that need replaced. I can do all of that for a few hundred bucks. I enjoy doing mod projects (I put some TV Jones Classic 'Trons in a Squier Strat) and swapping out the P-90s for mini-hums checks all my boxes without the need to sell one guitar and buy another.

A couple of months back, I ordered a Epi Les Paul 50s Outfit but the company didn't know when they'd actually get it to send it to me so I canceled the order.

When I bought my goldie, I thought I would like the P-90s but these just don't do it for me.

So, I totally get what you're saying and I've considered doing exactly what you're suggesting but I think that using my Epi body and neck (which I love) as a mod platform fits my needs better that buying a Gibby.
 

ChicknPickn

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Will state the obvious here, cuz that's what I do. Just make sure you've really worked with pickup height to make sure you've gotten all there is to get. You might have muddy pickups, but you might not have found the target zone. To make my P90 sing, I needed to change my mounting, work with the adjustable poles, etc. Finally got a sweet sound that makes me happy.
 

Ron C

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Thanks, @Ron C , I think Gibson's are great but I don't really want to buy another guitar. I have a perfectly solid LP platform with pickups that I didn't bond with and pots that need replaced. I can do all of that for a few hundred bucks. I enjoy doing mod projects (I put some TV Jones Classic 'Trons in a Squier Strat) and swapping out the P-90s for mini-hums checks all my boxes without the need to sell one guitar and buy another.

A couple of months back, I ordered a Epi Les Paul 50s Outfit but the company didn't know when they'd actually get it to send it to me so I canceled the order.

When I bought my goldie, I thought I would like the P-90s but these just don't do it for me.

So, I totally get what you're saying and I've considered doing exactly what you're suggesting but I think that using my Epi body and neck (which I love) as a mod platform fits my needs better that buying a Gibby.
Got it, makes perfect sense and sounds like a good plan. Just wanted to prod a little before you pull the trigger.

Slight tangent: I'm struck by how many interesting options there are in the P90 soap bar format. Tons of true P90s, the minis in pickup surrounds, then there's more unusual stuff life TV Jones Filtertrons in P90 format, or DiMarzio's range of soapbar style humbuckers.

For example: Last year I had a Yamaha RGX A2 with soapbar size A5 humbuckers. What a weird guitar - a mix of brilliant and ridiculous features, ultra modern and vintage specs. Anyway, after adjusting the amp to taste (a little more treble, a little less mids than my Tele) I thought those pickups were terrific. To my ears, they had a much more single coil vibe than the Duncan SM1 Firebird style pickup I used to have. This despite the 9k DCR, which made me think they would've been mud. I pulled them out of the guitar before selling it, and they patiently wait for a new guitar to go into.

And the $25 for the pair low wind ceramic Artec P90s I put in the Yamaha when selling it sounded GLORIOUS. Go figure...

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backporchmusic

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Epi's newest mini hums are actually nice, I have them in their new Riviera model. I play clean and clear through them and they are not muddy. They have clear, bright definition.
 

Gris

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I have travelled this road. I had a 2010 Gibson Goldtop that came with P 90s that were so so. Now it has Mojo clone 90s that kill. I have minis in neck of both my Teles. Lollar FB in one, true mini in other. My fave mini in neck is a Klein ‘middle’ PU. It’s wound to 6.5K. It’s clear, fat, punchy, 3D. It’s my secret blues weapon.
 
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