Super Reverb Reissue -- a 45-watt Princeton?

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Churchjack, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. Churchjack

    Churchjack Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    466
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    And, the thread title says it all. I'm hooked on my 6 month old SW tweed Princeton Reverb Reissue, and I want MORE. I wanna get that sound only louder. Is a Super the solution? Would running 2x12" speakers make it louder? I'm just ruminating at this point, but would welcome all suggestions.

    What a great amp. But so tiny. :)
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  2. Torren61

    Torren61 Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    8,267
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Location:
    Humboldt County, CA
    You COULD buy a Fryette Power Station and re-amp the Princeton Reverb. Oh yeah, you’ll need a bigger cab, too. I have one and I boost my tweed Champ. I can boost it to 50 watts.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  3. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    15,768
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
    Just keep buying more Princeton Reverbs, and daisy-chain together as many as you need. Think of it as a modular amp, just bring enough to do the gig.
     
  4. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,809
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Location:
    Crawfordville, FL
    A mic.

    The problem with adding a cabinet is the impedance. The total needs to be 8 ohms. That said, 15 watts and two 100dB speakers should be more than enough.

    I've never needed more than my 1x12 45 watt combo. I briefly had a 1967 Super Reverb that I restored and it was too loud, even in our 6 piece group.
     
  5. MuddyWolf

    MuddyWolf Tele-Holic

    Age:
    58
    Posts:
    518
    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Location:
    Paradise, Ca
    Deluxe reverb.
     
    nojazzhere and saleake like this.
  6. fretWalkr

    fretWalkr Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    510
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Location:
    DFW
    I've always played Super Reverbs, I've had 4 over the years. I love having the middle control and the sound of the 4 10s. Since guitar lives in the midrange I prefer amps with a mid control. The DRs have the middle fixed around 4, which is a nice sound. But I like the variety of sounds a mid control gives you.

    With the built in attenuator, the new SR RI ought to be pretty amazing. The sweet spot for me is with the vol on 7.5. With the 1/2 watt attenuation I could do that at pretty low volume. Tempting.
     
  7. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    15,826
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Location:
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    Read the story of an early experience of Randall Smith, guy who started Mesa Boogie. I use to fantasize about owning Barry Melton's Princeton Reverb.

    "Around 1969 we wanted to play a prank on Barry Melton of Country Joe and the Fish. So I took his little Fender Princeton practice amp which, stock, puts out about twelve watts into a ten-inch speaker. I cut up the chassis to fit big transformers and entirely rebuilt it using the famous 4x10 Tweed Bassman circuit. After careful measurement, I cut out the speaker board and squeaked in a twelve-inch JBL D-120, the hot speaker back then. When I finished building it, I took it out to the front of the store to get a good play test and who happened to be hanging out right then? Carlos Santana."......from Randall's website.
     
    Torren61 likes this.
  8. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,999
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    The Princeton and Super Reverb are somewhat similar - but not. The difference in tone is quite significant and due to
    1. Preamp
    2. Ppwertubes/output section
    3. Speakers and cabinet.
    At low volumes they can sound similar.

    Each has their own charm..despite 10" speakers. At higher volumes they will be a bit different.
     
    Torren61 likes this.
  9. SnidelyWhiplash

    SnidelyWhiplash Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,387
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Location:
    Hoggtown, KY.
    Completely different amps. That's the beauty & some might say the crux of Fender amps. They were designed as different circuits for a particular need & price point. There is no " bigger " Princeton. The closest is the Deluxe, but it's a different amp.
     
  10. Chipss36

    Chipss36 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    58
    Posts:
    627
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2020
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes you need a super, and a deluxe,
    And a baseman, and a vibroverb…and……

    all different, all wonderful!

    with the deluxe and up the eyelet card is just about the same.
    The speakers. The output transformers, the cabinet are much different.

    the pr has a much different circuit.
    The vibrato is much different, the filter cap arrangement much different.
    It has its own tone, every bit as good as the other’s.
     
    Churchjack and Mike M like this.
  11. Drew617

    Drew617 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    758
    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Location:
    North Shore, Mass.
    Depending what component of "that sound" you really like, the answer is either a. Any of the AB763 amps are in the same neighborhood or b. None of them are in the same neighborhood as the Princeton Reverb. The Princeton's preamp section isn't too much different from the others, but it has some unique things going on that contribute to its sound, and which aren't replicated in the bigger Fender BF/SF amps: A cathodyne phase inverter, bias vary tremolo, and relatively wussy transformers. Excepting the tremolo, IMO if you like the Princeton quiet you'll likely get close with any other Fender BF/SF amp. The unique Princeton behaviors show up at 5+ on the volume knob.

    You can upgrade the PT, OT, or both, mod one to run 6L6s... the Weber 6A14HP is a 6L6 Princeton Reverb. I built a stock 6A14 that's a bit closer to the real spec, but sort of fortified with the Deluxe PT and OT. That amp sounded closer to a Deluxe Reverb, just with better trem and different overdrive characteristics due to the PI. The upgrades also gave up a good deal of the expected Princeton charm for me - I eventually downgraded to a proper Princeton OT.

    Interestingly I think a lot of people go for the OT upgrade when beefing these amps up - I think the PT upgrade does as much or more to unlock "tone," specifically better control of low frequencies. Do that, and you can keep the correct OT installed for easy, characteristic saturation.
     
    Old Smokey likes this.
  12. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    16,320
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    The later Princetons have a particular sound due to their PI circuit. It's different than the Deluxe and larger amps.
    I dont know the Tweed Princeton RI though.
    I have upgraded the PR to Super transformers and 6L6's, and it's still PR type sound to some extent. Not as clean, more gritty than the AB763, but louder.
     
    trancedental, Torren61 and Drew617 like this.
  13. Churchjack

    Churchjack Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    466
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    Clean is what I’m looking for, really. Hairy edge, I guess, but not full on distortion. I like that spanky low end that it puts out, that compressed sound. The Deluxe does sound similar to me (from YT, anyway). I don’t necessarily need more, I’m just “window shopping”. Thanks for the ideas!
     
    Harpboy likes this.
  14. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,809
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Location:
    Crawfordville, FL
    The majority of the classic Fender circuits have a 6.8k mid resistor, including the Deluxe Reverb. The amps with midrange (the Super Reverb, Twin Reverb, and later the Dual Showman) have a 10k audio taper pot. Audio pots are at about 10% of their value at 50% rotation, so you don't get to 6.8k until up over 7 on the dial. In other words, at most settings, the black/silverface amps with midrange are more mid scooped. There's also not a whole lot of difference between 6.8k and 10k, at least in my opinion.
     
  15. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,174
    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2019
    Location:
    Lalaland
    Wow, no kidding, 50 watts out of a Champ! I have a tweed Champ Reissue and love the sound of it. May try your method to get more wattage.

    20210421_214936.jpg
     
    Torren61 likes this.
  16. mojavedesert

    mojavedesert Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    191
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Location:
    California
    A Pro Reverb, with two alnico 25 watt jensens seems to me like a very powerful Princeton. Or a Half -Twin. On 4 it will be like twice the volume of a princeton. The 70's Pro reverb is super undervalued. I bought a 73 for 800 bucks recently in perfect shape with newer, expensive speakers. The speakers would have cost 275 alone new. the were rated 75 watt each, but was so incredably loud, I didn't need it. I put in some lower watt speakers, it's lighter, way more fun to be able to spin the knobs. Also Pro rev. it very similar to a Super Reverb 45 watts. In the size of a Twin amp. Feels like half the weight of a twin with alnico speakers. I can carry mine by the handle with ease. I would buy another.
     
    Maguchi likes this.
  17. zook

    zook Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,819
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2003
    Location:
    Cochise, AZ
    A Princeton has a Cathodyne phase inverter which uses only one Triode of a 12AX7. The larger Fender amps use a Long-tailed Pair phase inverter which uses two triode on a 12 A_7
     
    trancedental likes this.
  18. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's

    Posts:
    6,460
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    Western NY
    IMO there is no "more" tweed Princeton. Anything you do to embiggen a tweed Princeton moves it out of the Princeton tone zone that you like.

    There are boutique single-ended amps that put two 6V6GTs in parallel, or use a 6L6GC, to get more wattage. They may or may not sound the way you want. Also, the difference between 4-5 Watts and 10 Watts is slight.

    The next step up in Fender wattage are tweeds that are louder, but are cleaner, or warmer, or darker than a tweed Princeton.

    I'm pretty sure you'll just have to learn to enjoy a different tweed circuit.
     
    Maguchi likes this.
  19. Mike M

    Mike M Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,185
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2019
    Location:
    07040
  20. Torren61

    Torren61 Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    8,267
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Location:
    Humboldt County, CA
    No, lol. I take the speaker output of the champ and run it into the Fryette and then out of the Fryette into a cab. The Fryette is rated at 50 watts with two 6L6 tubes. Using the Fryette also allows me to insert effects.
     
    Maguchi likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.