1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Subaru Wilderness trim to officially launch tomorrow

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Whatizitman, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,419
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Missoula, Montana
    The thing is we all have a small sample size -- nobody has that many cars -- so my opinion is that the Outback is a great car, just because I've had one for almost 10 years that's never given me a bit of trouble. Comfortable, reliable, good in winter, decent mileage for a car this big. And I guess I'm used to the CVT, though I use the paddle shifters in the hills. The people at the local independent Subaru shop tell me that most people get around 200k out of one before serious trouble. I don't bash mine around, though, if I can help it.
     
  2. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Holic

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    991
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2018
    Location:
    the mountains of Virginia
    Time for that '15 to start leaking oil from everywhere. Good move getting rid of it. I had several because they are about the only small, reliable AWD wagons you can get. And now they'r not so reliable anymore.
     
    boris bubbanov and Jakedog like this.
  3. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,677
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Earth
    The Subaru CVT is flat out not a reliability problem.

    Subaru has been around for like 50 years but their sales have taken off so much since 2010 that there are vastly more Subarus with the CVT than there were with the old manual transmissions. They've sold millions upon millions of cars with CVTs, if they were really bad it would have sunk the brand and the sales would have tanked after a backlash.. instead they've continued to go up.

    I've had an Outback with a CVT for 9 years. It's given me 0 trouble. And I would much rather drive the CVT than any automatic transmission. Manual transmission is the most fun, but I think the CVT is more fun than an Auto any day. The Autos are all like letting an idiot control what gear the car is in and when to shift. The CVT doesn't do that since it's not "in" a gear and doesn't "change" a gear.

    I would say I am in favor of this package. The stupid thing with the Outback is it has a ton of clearance already, to the point it compromises the on-road driving dynamics. And yet it is just shy on tires of being legal to get an OHV pass in my state. I would have to buy a different wheel and tire package along with a full size spare to be allowed to go offroading in the best areas.

    So if you're going to jack it up to the moon you might as well not stop 5% short of where you need to be for off roading.

    I mean really though I don't want another Subaru just cause the engines mostly suck and the fuel economy sucks and they're 20 years behind on hybrids & electric cars. If there was an EV Outback coming that was competitive maybe I'd want another one. But my current one has a lot of life left in it, by the time I'm looking for a car again I can't even fathom the idea that a pure gas Subaru would be remotely competitive.

    I mean the current one has no power AND wastes gas. What is there to like about their motors? Somebody says they like the gas motor in their Ferrari or BMW I get it, but the motor in a Subaru?
     
  4. Cpb2020

    Cpb2020 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    Age:
    48
    Posts:
    250
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2020
    Location:
    New York
    I had an outback for 15 years. It did start leaking oil at the head after 8-10 years. Never enough to warrant doing something about it, but certainly noticeable when I changed the plugs and was annoying. Other than oil changes, tires, brakes/rotors, a new battery or two, and an O2 sensor, it was reliable for the first 15 years.

    But the northeast salt spreading got the better of it, as the rear floor and gas tank ended up getting numerous perforated holes, so I traded it in. In all fairness I probably only washed the undercarriage (and entire car, for that matter) a handful of times during the 15 years.
     
  5. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    11,532
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I like cars that run, get me places and can rez road it. Subarus so far haven't let me down. My wife got me into them, she had a 2010 Outback when I met her. She was a big Jeep fan, and too bad, because I never paid attention to them until lately. She traded her's in for the Outback.

    Anyways, I bought a 2019 Crosstrek new and she's got a 2020 Ascent. I ruggedized mine already, roof basket, AT tires, full size spare. I'd get that OEM if I could. No lift kit for me, it's fine for what it is. I do want to get some skid plates though. I've heard all the bad news and grumbles about recent Subarus, but I'm at 60k already and it's still chipper.
     
    hdvades likes this.
  6. hdvades

    hdvades Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    915
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Location:
    Hudson Valley, NY
    I had a similar '14. It served it's purpose but had a ton of interior noise. I have the "next gen" '19 Impreza and it's a major improvement over the '16 and earlier models. I'd love one of these new Outback's but their out of my price range. That plus the fact I get a lot better gas mileage is a bonus when you're on fixed income haha. People are always surprised by what I can fit in that Impreza hatchback.
     
  7. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    21,314
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    “Start” leaking oil? lol. That’s the easy part. Just dump more in. We keep a five quart jug in the back at all times. That light comes on frequently.

    There was the brake light switch that went bad twice. Known issue, but no recall issued so out of pocket. Then eventually they did issue a recall, but could we get reimbursed? Nope.

    Then there was the weird thing where the power windows and sunroof just quit working. Wouldn’t go up or down. Just stopped. I don’t remember what the issue was, but it cost some money.

    Why is this wagon on its third battery in six years?

    Why does it eat tires like they’re candy? We’re on our fifth set in six years. None of her other cars ever did that. It’s not the way she drives.

    Her other vehicles have gone 80-100k between brake jobs. Why does this forester need brakes every 50k miles?

    Why did the whole AC system need to be replaced at 60k? Why is the blower now making a weird noise?

    This leaves out the obvious design flaw in the windshield angle that absolutely ensures that if anything hits it on the Highway, it gets cracked. I don’t I even remember how many windshields we’ve had installed. It has to be approaching double digits.

    Maybe this doesn’t sound like a lot to some people, but to me it’s ridiculous. I couldn’t see ever buying another one, but she seems to be headed that direction.


    On the positive side, it is totally awesome in the snow. It has never broken down and left us stuck anywhere.
     
    posttoastie and tbp0701 like this.
  8. markal

    markal Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    1,023
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Location:
    Colorado
    Interesting. I’m buying a new car soon to get a little more capability for pulling a “boondocking” mini camp trailer we ordered. I was leaning toward the Outback turbo. Might take a look at this. I’ve had two Subarus and I have been quite happy with them.
     
  9. markal

    markal Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    1,023
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Location:
    Colorado
    Did you get the recall notice and have an oil consumption test? I have a ‘13 Foresters and it was recalled for oil consumption, but results of my test were within acceptable limits. If it failed the test Subaru was offering a new engine.
     
    Jakedog likes this.
  10. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,677
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Earth
    My Outback has always consumed oil at a level that is just shy of annoying but definitely not a problem that endangers the engine.

    It has an overly long maintenance interval of 7500 miles and it just happens to burn a quart of oil about every 7000-8000 miles. Depending on driving patterns it occasionally needs a quart of oil added between changes. This is not a level that is unexpected in a modern car really.. it's likely just the PCV operating normally but the maintenance routines were not calibrated well. A few years after mine they shortened the interval between changes.

    The whole leaking at the head thing should have been long dead by 2015... the whole "subaru head gasket" thing is from a family of engines that they killed off years ago. They used that same engine/head/gasket design forever and so it will take a LONG time before owners actually believe that the new engines don't have that issue since so many people were burned by it.
     
  11. Jakedog

    Jakedog Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    21,314
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Location:
    The North Coast
    No recall for that on the ‘15.
     
  12. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,677
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Earth
    It doesn't really matter what car you buy.. there are always some of them that are going to suck.

    One of my previous jobs we had some of the auto manufacturers as customers. We were helping with performance of software used to track defects coming off the line.

    Cars get screwed up on the line. They get pulled out of the line and go in a pool to be fixed before they're shipped. That way they don't stop the line to fix the problem, the faulty car just keeps moving alone the line and gets finished with the non-faulty cars.

    The problem was they were tracking all these cars in a computer system and what needed to be redone... and there were so many faulty cars they needed help optimizing their computer system because the software couldn't handle the amount of fault data being entered into it.

    Someone gets those cars.. some of those cars get completely fixed. But if they screw up that many (we're talking 6-figures of cars here and 7, 8, 9 figures of mistakes that had to be corrected) they aren't going to successfully fix them all and someone is going to buy them.

    Then it's up to the dealer to figure out what the heck is going wrong when your factory screwup keeps breaking.

    I had a Ford that was probably one of these cars. It sucked, it kept failing in the same ways and no one could ever figure it out. I've owned 4 cars as an adult, luckily I only rolled snake eyes that one time.

    And this is just factory mistakes.. not even bad designs that are engineering mistakes. If the design is bad it won't matter if the factory puts it together correctly.
     
  13. Jerry J

    Jerry J Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,180
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Location:
    NoVa
    ^^^ Agree, but I am biased!
     
  14. Ed Storer

    Ed Storer Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    1,156
    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Location:
    Seattle WA
    I have a 2019 Legacy with CVT and normally aspirated 2.5 L engine. It feels badly underpowered. If the turbo had been available, I probably would have gotten it. Other than that, I have no problem with the CVT
     
  15. sloppychops

    sloppychops Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    624
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Location:
    wisconsin
    I've had an '86 Subaru wagon, a 2004 Outback, and now a 2015 Outback. The CVT doesn't bother me at all, but I have no need for an off-road vehicle. In fact, I think the existing models are too off-roady for most drivers.

    It's definitely an underpowered car, and to make matters worse the mileage it gets is terrible. I average 23 to 24 in city driving. Best I ever got was 33 driving all day on the highway.

    One thing that really irks me about the Outback: you can't leave the rear hatch open without draining the battery. Think of all those rear hatch tents available now, or how many times you may want to leave the hatch open overnight while camping... but better not do it or you'll have a dead battery in the morning.

    Really, Subaru? You're the "outdoors adventure" car and you can't leave the hatch open without draining the battery?

    Yes, you could disconnect the battery, but then you have to reset your clock, your radio, and who knows what else when you reconnect the battery.

    Side note: I bought Nokian WRG4 tires to replace the abysmally awful Bridgestones that came with it. The Nokians are an all season tire designed to perform almost as well as snow tires in the winter. They're great tires, and I highly recommend them.
     
    Jakedog, richiek65 and Whatizitman like this.
  16. beninma

    beninma Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,677
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Location:
    Earth
    Huh.. my 2013 shuts the lights off after a while if you leave the hatch open. Maybe something is screwed up with yours?

    At least yours is a 2015. My 2013 with the 4-cylinder + CVT doesn't really get 23-24 in the city even though it's rated 24 in the city. More like 18-19 in the winter and 20-21 in the summer. It's horrible considering how slow it is.

    What they should do is offer the Wilderness model only for the offroad wannabees and just offer the rest of us a Legacy Wagon again that deletes all the poor aerodynamic plastic cladding, drops the suspension back down to a normal level and provides great handling like the legacy, gets rid of all the wind noise, etc..

    If they had been offering a Legacy Wagon even vs the current Outback I'd have taken the Legacy wagon for sure. Obviously they used to offer that and they still do in some countries I think.

    The Wilderness thing should be the only Outback option.. make sure the tires & wheels are big enough to get OHV permits in all 50 states and include a full size spare + a compressor or something. Give a MT option cause offroad guys really want that. Then make the other option less off-road biased than the current Outback.
     
  17. TwangToInfinity

    TwangToInfinity Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    1,210
    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Location:
    Twangville
    i like that they are trying to make it appear more modern and GM looking !
     
  18. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,802
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Location:
    WV

    Wow. That's actually a major negative for me. Sure enough, some googling indicates even if the cargo lights are off, battery current is still drawn when any door is open. That royally sucks. Wife and I plan to do some occasional car camping, and I'm not doing a trailer or RTT. At 50 I'm done sleeping on the ground, too. The plan was to go with a rear hatch tent. Hence the need for rear seats that fold flat.

    Dagnabbit. Oh well. Back to the drawing board. I guess a good aftermarket battery can help. But I'm not waking up multiple times in the night to restart the car. Will have to revisit that issue when I'm ready to buy.

    https://www.subaruoutback.org/threa...n-in-freezing-rain.394490/page-2#post-4578402

    EDIT: apparently there's a workaround trick. But should be unnecessary, IMO.

    https://www.subaruoutback.org/threa...n-in-freezing-rain.394490/page-2#post-5848081
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  19. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,243
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    These cars have always been a little cool to me, but I've always wanted them to have a more "square," utilitarian rear body design. The sloped roof and angled rear door just cut into the rear cargo space.
     
  20. Recce

    Recce Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    3,837
    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Location:
    Northern Alabama
    BorderRadio likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.