Studio Produced hits of the 50's 60's Using Pros, yet the bands were just youngsters not allowed to play on their own records

[Flat6Driver]

This Clobbered allot of intermediate guitars over the HEAD.

I could not understand how those 60s Guitarist on those songs were ALL that darn good.

when I could in no way play at the professional level even being the same age they all were 16 to 19 etc...

all we had to learn was really poorly faked books and charts, and Greedy Music Store Teachers $$ who
crammed JIMMY CRACK CORN down your Brains until you nailed it then next up some other CORNY old tune.

So how were all these very young guitarist suddenly so high up the level ???

That made so many of us feel inadequate as if we had zero potential.

when, it was all those studio HOUSE BANDS making all 50's 60's POP RADIO HITS!

Youngsters in bands should have been able to hear other youngsters in bands on the radio
even if it took them all 60-takes to get ONE good track!
At least we would have heard other youngsters on those guitar parts like ourselves.

When I look back at how horrible I felt because I was not an ACE at guitar at age 16 like the new Bands and new hit songs were that I dug. I felt really worthless at guitar! and maybe severely disabled as in horribly LEARNING CHALLENGED etc..

I wondered how a 16 year old was as good as seasoned pros?

When we took lessons and did everything we could to learn and we always share it with other guitarists.
YET every month we was getting SMOKED ON THE TOP 100 HITS _SUPPOSEDLY_ by people of our own age?
Was my whole High School full of Guitarist really all just morons at guitars like I felt I was myself?

I say at least 3 decades of young players were discouraged by these actions of these Hit Maker Conveyor Belt Record Production machine studios.

I am to this very day still very-very MAD that I was even tricked into LOVING those HITS!

If I had Known that players of my own DAD or Grandpas age,
was the the real players of almost all my favorite young bands pop hits, and that OLD DUDE'S were the ones actually playing all those great guitar parts and solos, I would have totally SHUNNED that FORMAT!

I would never had LOVED anything about those songs. because it was just OLD PEOPLE playing
on what was suppose to be MY GENERATIONS SONGS. it was FAKE.

I am still devastated to this day!, from never hearing what I was really suppose to HEAR from guitars on early hit Rock radio!

Which should have been those Guitarist from my generation doing the best that they could and making all the new Hits ( Like they wanted you to all think) and not just their Singer.
and not these ONE TAKE STUDIO/JAZZ experts, who were all used just to save time and money!

I had a lifetime of Music that I thought was MINE from my generation all become one BIG UGLY LIE!

EVEN TODAY there is a HOLE IN my GUITARIST HEART the SIZE of TEXAS from all this!

I cannot forgive anyone of those people involved in this TRICKERY that they all agreed to play out on everyone on the other side of that Radio!

So yes Sadly TODAY- I must asdmit that I hate all those great old song's and sadly have NO RESPECT or LOVE for their HIRED STUDIO Guitarist who played on all those hits, no matter how great they can play,
because that's a huge part of LIFE ( we only all get one life ) and I feel it was STOLEN AWAY from me and everyone else and that we can never get it back or know what it would have really been like if it would have been REAL! not FAKED!

We all deserved to hear the real guitarist that was in those bands and their level of proficiency they could play at on their own on those records even if that meant we never would hear them because it would never be a HIT.

But as a young Guitarist I would have at least felt on PAR with those guitarist of my age and not
like a DUNCE on Guitar.

We all lost something dear to our youth here!

So... if you think I'm wrong... just imagine this: Going to grade school and all your teachers and professors were you age! that's what these studios did to YOUNG PEOPLE'S HIT MUSIC! and for that I have to set here and
SADLY HATE THEM all forever, (( THEIR UNFORGIVABLE ))

Sorry Folks, but I really-really had to get that the heck off my chest!
I do not like seeing those old studio bands receiving any WORSHIP these-days!

Great musicians YES they all were...
but they did at least 30 years of damage to all involved from A THRU Z and
altered the course of music UNFAIRLY - that is a SHAMEFUL ACT!

Wow. That's some post.

Time is money. I'm only finding this out of late. I'm also finding out about how abused child actors were/are. It's a cruel world.

 

[Donmare2324]

All right, that is your personal feel about that as a musician. All good.

What about your view as a listener?, what about the songs itself?, who wrote them?. This is what really counts imo.

Let’s transpose that attitude to late 40’s when multitrack Recordings started to develope… or to modern Studios, where techniques and tricks enable anyone with good ideas and very limited playing skills producing good MUSIC.

I understand your little “trauma” as a kid, but Man… Why don’t just let it go and adapt to the Times?

NO Sir __ I was not a Musician at age 5 thru 9. thank you~_

That was my LIFE as the listener too, thank you
ALSO: I very well knew who wrote the LYRICS, Thank you~
Theives stole the Singers - sent the bands home, and they created the Music using that singer and the lyrics. it was pretty much a CRIME ON THE ART'S itself.

I'm FINE about the Multitrack and Tricks as that's pretty oblivious to a musician
or if your in a one guitar band and the track has 5 - guitar tracks on the song you need to play.
that did not fool me growing up. thank you~

{I understand your little “trauma” as a kid,]
:NO, Sir I do not think you understand me at all or what their Bosses did, Thank you~

[but Man… Why don’t just let it go and adapt to the Times?]
:I let it go years ago - I let them all go and their fraudulent songs I never needed again,
and I am FREE To WRITE about it all I want. Thank you.
and I did adapt to the times VERY WELL IN FACT

I am writing about a CRIMINAL ATTACK on innocent BANDS back in the days 1960's
in the USA. and its effects on me and my fellow friends, aunts. uncles what ever and whoever

The TRAUMA in which you call little, did not happen as a KID, as I was DUPED then, ok and so was everyone in the USA at that time duped by their Fraudulent ACT

The Trauma if that's what you must call it ??

ADAPT TO THE TIMES - well in fact we all did soon those TIMES came
and My generation got to make REAL RECORDS and we had REAL BANDS that played the instruments - and we could go see them live, and it was not FAKED, thank you~


LASTLY HUMANS have emotions. ONE IS called ANGER, and it is a PERFECTLY NORMAL EMOTION.
IT does not need repressed or switched off, it is HEALTHY - to repress it is UNHEALTHY
I held it in for 50+ years, This is a Forum for musicians to write about their "FEELINGS" if they please. and I felt it was HIGH TIME I posted my Feelings on FRAUD POP of the 60s (mainly)
Thank you~

============================================================

also: ( Joke and Poke postings") not so much this reply,
but in general as a reader/reactor
its a great idea to read an entire post before you reply at all~~,
otherwise you really should not reply as you have another motive
altogether for doing so!!, (maybe an emotion?) or maybe as some Vaudeville trip your on?
and it has zero to do with the Original Post.

we call that ( Joke, Post and Run!) like hit and run driving...
or the kids street game of Knock and run! or HECKLING! ``

 

[Donmare2324]

If many of the actual bands played on those songs, everything from that era would sound like the Shaggs.

well that's good as far as I care, at least I would have know us kids ever only needed to beat the SHAGGS and not polished workhorse JAZZ Musicians posing as young rock guitarist

 

[drf64]

It didn't bother me at all when I found out.

Mili Vanilli didn't bother me either.

 

[Blazer]

Well, with the Monkees and the Jackson 5, all of their albums were recorded by session musicians, that's true. But when they did tours, they had to adapt quickly and play the songs themselves, which is where they could prove themselves as musicians in their own right.


It's also the reason, in the Jackson 5's case, they wanted to leave Motown because they wanted to play the music by themselves. Which, as this clip showcases, they were perfectly capable of doing.

 

[Donmare2324]

Wow. That's some post.

Time is money. I'm only finding this out of late. I'm also finding out about how abused child actors were/are. It's a cruel world.

money and corruption - hand in hand, lucky for me I only loved a few of their FRAUD POP songs,
so many songs on the top 40 play list was CORNY crap that would makes us all nuts at times from repetitive plays, as a kid with just radios music could be very disturbing back then, if I go month to month on the 60s top 40 charts most those songs we HATED so much, insufferable.
what was really a dose of reality was how a song you instantly liked / love could be destroyed into the dirt from Repetitive plays a hot new hit during prime time would literately be replayed every 10 to 15 mins. in two weeks time you was sorry you told others you liked it because by then it was driving everyone NUTS... loud repetitive MUSIC is also a WAR TOY, or a weapon used by the FBI etc.. or and invading ARMY to drive the enemy nuts.

our radios were usually Loud and blaring out of Garages or cars as kids. and there was no other station to Flick over too. It was all the music we had at hand, and the radio programmers knew this and took full advantage of it even at the cost of ruining the artist song this after all was AM BAND RADIO days, not so much ROCK FM STATIONS at all. once FM came and ROCK took lead over POP __MY LIFE WAS GOOD!__ I got it , I could play it on guitar, we had bands finally, we started to write our own stuff, some of us made it. The Regulators, Dark Angel, Bullet Boys, SUBLIME, all were my neighbors or High School friends. I went to the ARMY and then to the Factories if they would have me... my bands were just for fun.

 

[Donmare2324]

Well, with the Monkees and the Jackson 5, all of their albums were recorded by session musicians, that's true. But when they did tours, they had to adapt quickly and play the songs themselves, which is where they could prove themselves as musicians in their own right.


It's also the reason, in the Jackson 5's case, they wanted to leave Motown because they wanted to play the music by themselves. Which, as this clip showcases, they were perfectly capable of doing.

yea they got caught up in it too, by then I was a TEEN I was into Hard Rock and Progressive rock, POP was old free music on AM radio as a kid, as A teen we had choices, full albums not 45's and the music was for your head, not a Jingle or pop creation, but we called one type SOUL, and some good things was happening there in the later 70s and 45's all but disappeared, Cassettes with full LP's was the think no more 4 or 8 POP tracks ,, full Lps for the car! then Boom boxes came along and we had music everywhere and the GOOD STUFF not force feed PLAYLIST of POP FRAUD - end. Cheers

 

[Donmare2324]

Mili Vanilli didn't bother me either.

funny it did not bother me either to learn Mili Vanilli was a fraud, mostly because, they had already busted the Fraud Pop system, but TELEVISION had everyone lip syncing back then too - even if you was a great singer - no chances were taken on LIVE TV.

 

[Donmare2324]

All ask from this post forward:
is READ THE POST before you post.
by then you'll probably not actually post what you first felt you had to post anyways.

- cheers~

 

[Red Ryder]

Never did and won't ever bother me. The band members aren't really important. It's the music that makes people smile.

 

[hemingway]

Never bothered me. I would be more concerned about the session players not getting credit.

But, yeah, I'd rather that the truth was out there from day one, so people would know what they were getting - as they do now, with modern tech and session players and so on.

Wow, the entertainment business isn't all it seems. Who knew??

 

[Peegoo]

Pretty much all of the bands were treated this way.

Try not to rant too much.

Last thing you want is to be remembered as The Jim Gordon of the TDPRI

 

[Skydog1010]

If you watched closely to live TV appearances you could tell the actual band was faking it in the 50's and 60's, starting in the 70's the videos started with psychedelic effects that covered or obscured the detailed actions of playing or singing.

I personally didn't give much thought to session players recording the tracks for big name bands until the super session LP was delivered and it came with more than cliff notes about how the songs were actually recorded and enhanced.

Also I always felt that copying someone else's music by ear was just rolling the dice to start with. I took piano and voice lessons from around age 5 to age 10. I often hear scores in soundtracks/emotional music in movies that I composed or very closely resembles what I composed on the piano - never really composed much of anything but some strumming on the guitar. I can not sing if my life depended on me doing so.

BUT I LOVE MUSIC! (NOT THE MUSIC INDUSTRY)

"My Band" had fun and that was all we set out to do.

Kudos to the professional musicians that cranked out the tunes, the sound booth folks that directed, corrected and produced the outstanding music I have enjoyed for 69 years.

 

[middy]

This Clobbered allot of intermediate guitars over the HEAD.

I could not understand how those 60s Guitarist on those songs were ALL that darn good.

when I could in no way play at the professional level even being the same age they all were 16 to 19 etc...

all we had to learn was really poorly faked books and charts, and Greedy Music Store Teachers $$ who
crammed JIMMY CRACK CORN down your Brains until you nailed it then next up some other CORNY old tune.

So how were all these very young guitarist suddenly so high up the level ???

That made so many of us feel inadequate as if we had zero potential.

when, it was all those studio HOUSE BANDS making all 50's 60's POP RADIO HITS!

Youngsters in bands should have been able to hear other youngsters in bands on the radio
even if it took them all 60-takes to get ONE good track!
At least we would have heard other youngsters on those guitar parts like ourselves.

When I look back at how horrible I felt because I was not an ACE at guitar at age 16 like the new Bands and new hit songs were that I dug. I felt really worthless at guitar! and maybe severely disabled as in horribly LEARNING CHALLENGED etc..

I wondered how a 16 year old was as good as seasoned pros?

When we took lessons and did everything we could to learn and we always share it with other guitarists.
YET every month we was getting SMOKED ON THE TOP 100 HITS _SUPPOSEDLY_ by people of our own age?
Was my whole High School full of Guitarist really all just morons at guitars like I felt I was myself?

I say at least 3 decades of young players were discouraged by these actions of these Hit Maker Conveyor Belt Record Production machine studios.

I am to this very day still very-very MAD that I was even tricked into LOVING those HITS!

If I had Known that players of my own DAD or Grandpas age,
was the the real players of almost all my favorite young bands pop hits, and that OLD DUDE'S were the ones actually playing all those great guitar parts and solos, I would have totally SHUNNED that FORMAT!

I would never had LOVED anything about those songs. because it was just OLD PEOPLE playing
on what was suppose to be MY GENERATIONS SONGS. it was FAKE.

I am still devastated to this day!, from never hearing what I was really suppose to HEAR from guitars on early hit Rock radio!

Which should have been those Guitarist from my generation doing the best that they could and making all the new Hits ( Like they wanted you to all think) and not just their Singer.
and not these ONE TAKE STUDIO/JAZZ experts, who were all used just to save time and money!

I had a lifetime of Music that I thought was MINE from my generation all become one BIG UGLY LIE!

EVEN TODAY there is a HOLE IN my GUITARIST HEART the SIZE of TEXAS from all this!

I cannot forgive anyone of those people involved in this TRICKERY that they all agreed to play out on everyone on the other side of that Radio!

So yes Sadly TODAY- I must asdmit that I hate all those great old song's and sadly have NO RESPECT or LOVE for their HIRED STUDIO Guitarist who played on all those hits, no matter how great they can play,
because that's a huge part of LIFE ( we only all get one life ) and I feel it was STOLEN AWAY from me and everyone else and that we can never get it back or know what it would have really been like if it would have been REAL! not FAKED!

We all deserved to hear the real guitarist that was in those bands and their level of proficiency they could play at on their own on those records even if that meant we never would hear them because it would never be a HIT.

But as a young Guitarist I would have at least felt on PAR with those guitarist of my age and not
like a DUNCE on Guitar.

We all lost something dear to our youth here!

So... if you think I'm wrong... just imagine this: Going to grade school and all your teachers and professors were you age! that's what these studios did to YOUNG PEOPLE'S HIT MUSIC! and for that I have to set here and
SADLY HATE THEM all forever, (( THEIR UNFORGIVABLE ))

Sorry Folks, but I really-really had to get that the heck off my chest!
I do not like seeing those old studio bands receiving any WORSHIP these-days!

Great musicians YES they all were...
but they did at least 30 years of damage to all involved from A THRU Z and
altered the course of music UNFAIRLY - that is a SHAMEFUL ACT!

Edit: At first I reacted negatively, but I see Don’s point after reading the whole thread. Pop music is usually a shameless money grab, along with everything else “pop”, integrity be damned.

 

[Red Ryder]

All of the rock bands fake play and lip sync. The recordings are actually made by the same elves that make Santa's toys in the off season.
This is true because it's the kind of stuff you read about, in New wave magazines.

 

[Oxidao]

NO Sir __ I was not a Musician at age 5 thru 9. thank you~_

That was my LIFE as the listener too, thank you
ALSO: I very well knew who wrote the LYRICS, Thank you~
Theives stole the Singers - sent the bands home, and they created the Music using that singer and the lyrics. it was pretty much a CRIME ON THE ART'S itself.

I'm FINE about the Multitrack and Tricks as that's pretty oblivious to a musician
or if your in a one guitar band and the track has 5 - guitar tracks on the song you need to play.
that did not fool me growing up. thank you~

{I understand your little “trauma” as a kid,]
:NO, Sir I do not think you understand me at all or what their Bosses did, Thank you~

[but Man… Why don’t just let it go and adapt to the Times?]
:I let it go years ago - I let them all go and their fraudulent songs I never needed again,
and I am FREE To WRITE about it all I want. Thank you.
and I did adapt to the times VERY WELL IN FACT

I am writing about a CRIMINAL ATTACK on innocent BANDS back in the days 1960's
in the USA. and its effects on me and my fellow friends, aunts. uncles what ever and whoever

The TRAUMA in which you call little, did not happen as a KID, as I was DUPED then, ok and so was everyone in the USA at that time duped by their Fraudulent ACT

The Trauma if that's what you must call it ??

ADAPT TO THE TIMES - well in fact we all did soon those TIMES came
and My generation got to make REAL RECORDS and we had REAL BANDS that played the instruments - and we could go see them live, and it was not FAKED, thank you~

All good Don, I think I can see your point.
Mine is a bit different.

LASTLY HUMANS have emotions. ONE IS called ANGER, and it is a PERFECTLY NORMAL EMOTION.
IT does not need repressed or switched off, it is HEALTHY - to repress it is UNHEALTHY
I held it in for 50+ years, This is a Forum for musicians to write about their "FEELINGS" if they please. and I felt it was HIGH TIME I posted my Feelings on FRAUD POP of the 60s (mainly)

Very right.

 

[Donmare2324]

But why be mad at the house bands rather than at the pseudo-musicians?

an accomplice in a crime is still a criminal, and receive the same sentence . sometimes worse in the USA... The House musicians knew very well the Mud they was stepping into, as for my perfectly normal Human emotion_ ~anger~_, that was pushed on, by FILMS making tall these secret House bands out to be "OH SO INNOCENT LITTLE VICTIMS, and each documentary goes on to tell the viewers how we finally owe them our Praise and worship and notoriety for making the Music on Fraudulent POP!, I'd refuse to tell my Girlfriends Secret Boyfriend I loved the way you took my Girl out on a Dinner date, why would I tell these house bands I love the way they secretly took my youths Bands songs and singers away and what a great job they did musically on teh FRAUD POP recording... and that I'm in awe of there Musicianship and how advanced and way ahead of everyone it was when it came to Hit Making, because that's all they did everyday of their life was FRAUD POP
now they want Credit for being the best at Fraud pop.... sorry no thanks, you lied and I was stuck hearing the 4 of you fake me out... and your all I probably heard... when I was 4 thru 9 ('61 to '66)
those first impressive years of my life - they Sent home all the other band members and made me listen to their OLD MAN JAZZ attempts at rock and once they had the formula I was force feed that formula for my impressionable first 5 years of music... that was not nice of them or their mean Bosses, I had to go in the ARMY and to the Factories for my paychecks, far as I care they never should have never agreed to not be credited... there was a Musicians Union somewhere during that whole Fraud Pop System. they should have went out on STRIKE not continue to be ripped off for Royalties and fame - most were only getting $5 to $25 a HIT - what they were involved with was wrong and the boss was wrong - TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT... thats my beef..

( wheres the beef?... well there it was... reading required )

 

[Donmare2324]

I was trying (poorly) to bash out Beatles and Stones tunes back then. Pretty sure they played their own guitars.

Even in my youth I knew that wasn't Mike Nesmith playing on Valleri.

your so right,+me too i was not great at finding the correct notes or chords , but were we not trying to play songs that they had a lot of time to create and polish???

when we should have been playing those first ones that they all started to perform with then work our way up to the polished pro ones after a few years of playing the lesser ones (everyday) just like they did .

they started very young and were also horrible like we all was when we all first started to have a band, Beatles were pretty bad _until they were booked 8 days a week, that's when they started to get good and noticed, we all knew that, dispute the media presenting them as overnight sensations

the Studio bosses Record bosses all knew these stories and were not about to use up that kind of studio time - so these HIT MAKER FACTORIES Sprung up, but they wanted us to think all these new arrivals on the scene was just as good or better then the beatles and stones and they sounded so good -- too good -- then they had to learn their parts like the record - some needed help from the studio guitarist to do that, and some were very helpful and showed members their new parts for their TOP 40 Hit song. but not always. allot of those members we forsed to QUIT the HIT BAND they were in before it even toured (just heartbreaking) ( I am really not writing anything that was not in those Studio House Band Documentaries here) cheers

 

[watercaster]

Don, it sounds like you had your first viewing of the documentary...The Wrecking Crew.
I found it fascinating.

 

[Dave W]

Mili Vanilli didn't bother me either.

They were unintentionally hilarious.