Standard oil vs. synthetic?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by davo8411, May 22, 2019.

  1. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Manufacturers specify both normal and severe service intervals, but they never describe the difference in any usefully specific way. Your normal could be more or less severe than their idea of normal. So as your viscosity additives break down, your 5w40 becomes 5w35, becomes 5w30, etc, until you change it out whenever.

    Used oil analysis will tell you the actual viscosity along with the degree of contamination. You could find out if your chosen interval is shorter than it needs to be, or if you are pushing it too far. Either way, that's good to know. With an older motor you can identify wear byproducts like bearing or ring metal before you would observe any symptoms otherwise. Again, good to know if a major overhaul is in the near future.
     
  2. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Holic

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    Never? The manufacturer of my car provides a pretty solid list, although I guess item B could be seen as vague:

    severe.png

    My wife's car (different make, same country) has almost the same page. I don't have the manuals for the cars they replaced, but I'm pretty sure those had a similar list.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  3. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    How could we test such a thing?

    The cars focused on getting maximum high gas mileage these days use products like 0W16 (synthetic). There is no Dinosaur equivalent to 0W16. The car with the 0W16 oil in its crankcase WILL get better fuel economy than the one using dino oil - I've seen tests so I know the documentation is out there.

    I've seen better gasoline mileage on the cars I've converted from dino to synthetic (family members). The properties are superior and those properties are retained over longer intervals. As far as increased performance, decreased noise, well I have suspicions what happens but it is too subtle for me to measure.
     
  4. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    At 60K it was perfect.
     
  5. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I doubt it but what difference would it make?

    Cars need to be able to go 100,000 miles and much more without having cylinder heads pulled and rehabbed.
     
  6. Bluey

    Bluey Tele-Meister

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    Most motorcycles use the same oil for wet clutch, gear box & engine lubrication. Full synthetic, even though superior against engine wear, can result in clutch slip. Hence Semi-Synthetic as per manufacturers spec.
     
  7. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Afflicted

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    It was developed for the trucking industry IIRC, so trucks could get many miles on an oil change as long as they replaced the oil filter periodically and topped off the oil level.

    Then taxi fleets followed suit... I saw pictures of an engine teardown on a taxi with over a million miles that had used synthetic its whole life... no visible wear, and very little measurable wear.

    As long as you follow good routine maintenance, I see no problems going with synthetic lubricants.
     
  8. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    did not ready any other responses, don't need to.

    You have a new car. Run synthetic.
    You have an old car. Run synthetic
    You have a super old car, buy the joe gibbs synthetic

    don't listen to anything else. do not use non synthetic.
     
  9. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Not if you use the right oil. I use the same oil for my 04 Monaro CV8 and 02 Triumph 955i Daytona plus my wife's BMW 118 turbo. It's recommended on their site.

    IMG_20190524_095357.jpg

    It's friction modifiers that make wet clutches slip. Not synthetic oil Note the little motorcycle on the label. This is their performance car, bike and racing/super duty oil.

    For an aircooled Harley or vintage bikes they recommend another higher viscosity oil in the same range for roller bearings and greater clearances. No clutch slip with this oil. Great cold start and warmup behaviour. Cold, runs like water. Drains fast.

    https://www.penriteoil.com.au/faqs#/318/What-is-the-difference-between-mineral,-semi-synthetic-and-full-synthetic-base-oils?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  10. VWAmTele

    VWAmTele Friend of Leo's

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    My 21 year old Isuzu Rodeo has known nothing but synthetic oil since it left the factory. Still going strong, only non-wear type thing I've had to do is replace a starter.
     
  11. tubedood

    tubedood Tele-Meister

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    Here's my scoop on the oil debate... from a Jeep Wrangler guy with 250k on the clock. This doesn't apply to the OP with a new car but might spark an interest with folks with older cars. My old girl would lose somehow about 1/2 quart every few weeks on my daily driving in Florida (150 miles a day to Tampa and back). It didn't seem to be dripping and I never saw exhaust hints that its being burned. Not too sure where the oil went but man it was going somewhere. A Wrangler site recommended Castrol GTX semi synthetic for the typical old Jeep leaks and I gave it a shot.. same viscosity just the semi syn. It did stop the oil loss. If you have a little oil loss like I did and want to hopefully stop it.. try this oil. It costs a bit more but it does seem to stick around longer I guess hahaa.
     
  12. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's not the old fashioned sludge or carbony deposits I'm talking about. Our base grade fuel is based on what US manufacturers want. It's low lead, minimum octane RON 91, which I think is like your 87 standard. GM and Ford who made cars threatened to leave Australia if the government didn't mandate it when low lead came in. It's quite high sulfur and leaves deposits on plugs, heads and O2 sensors. Throws sediments. You can see it in fuel filters as a stain. We don't have ethanol in fuel n most places.

    95 (your 91?) and 98 (your 96?) Are Euro fuels, same standards. They're yellow by law because you can't adulterate that colour. Standard is variously green, brown, red or purple. Premium fuels have detergents, standard has none or very little.

    A few years ago a fuel company set up a demo at a racetrack with a dyno - they fed standard to one bank of a V8 and their super premium to the other bank while filming in the combustion chambers, one each side while they revved the motor under load - they could stop the motor and let you see. Even when it was burning you could see deposits forming on the piston top and valves. Stopped, it was very noticeable. End of the weekend they pulled off the exhaust and showed the inside including the O2 sensors.

    Big difference, from the equivalent of maybe 2000km or 1200 miles of motoring. The standard side was coated with a furry layer of grey-brown deposits. The premium side had very fine film of grey- black across the surfaces. You could see the diff on the rim of the pistons above the rings, too..

    The deposits from poorer quality fuels and oils definitely affect things like O2 sensors, MAF sensors in some cars depending on crankcase ventilation.

    If it's a mom soccer mobile trundling low speed between grocery stores, school pickups and commuter stations, maybe it won't help; or for a commuter car traded every few years. But something you want to keep or care about? I don't do that many km a year so I run 98.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  13. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

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    Only two figures of merit matter. Oil usage, and bearing life. I've yet to have a problem with either, and again, 6 auto examples with over 270k each, plus over 40 years of auto, tractor and other engine operation and experience. Better oil is like better fork straightness for good nutrition.
     
  14. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

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    upload_2019-5-23_20-4-21.png

    Really important, measurable, definitive value associated with oil and oil related failures and service life.
     
  15. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    They're just telling you it's a sub for those grades. In other words a superior product. It is.

    Run what you want and what works for you.
     
  16. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Those were tough little trucks and a favorite among the Whitewater Kayaking guys.

    But we assumed such trucks would always be abundant and very cheap, so some of the guys let theirs get trashed. Or they had no place to store an additional truck and it was given to some Charity. Just a little more TLC and they could still be rolling, now.
     
  17. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Tele-Afflicted

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    An oil thread on a guitar site?

    WTF? I suppose the next thing I can expect is a tone wood debate on a Ducati forum.
     
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  18. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't doubt its superior on the figures of merit that they advertise. But on the figures of merit of engine life, moving parts wear rates, film adhesion, boundary layer and erosion and corrosion rates, its exactly equal or less. That's how snake oil works. Example: I've got some shoe laces that weigh less than yours, so the tread wear on your sneakers will be less! <g> In otherwords, if it can't extend the engine life beyond the product life, it can't offer a benefit. Or in another analogy, extending engine life to 1.5M miles from 1.4M miles isn't of any tangible value to me, you or anyone else, because other factors will dictate replacement sooner.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  19. Cheap guitar guy

    Cheap guitar guy Tele-Meister

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    Synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil because it does not break down on a molecular level like the conventional oil does and does not produce sludge. It lasts longer however your oil filter is not designed to go beyond say 5000 miles max.
     
  20. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's superior on all those quantifiable measures. It's more shear stable. It dilutes less. It's engineered to be light viscosity cold when you want it circulating quickly and heavy. It doesn't degrade with age anywhere near as much and because it resists wear more you don't end up with oil contamination as quickly. It's more temperature tolerant so doesn't burn as fast. It doesn't need as much additive to achieve all that.

    That's been proven in numerous lab tests with wear metals, dilution measures, volumes etc etc etc. Your choice. Good quality mineral oil is still good quality mineral oil. Poor quality synthetic is still poor quality synthetic.
     
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