57Strat777
TDPRI Member
Thank you very much! I am using a pick in the OP recording.
Stainless frets after 6000 hours of playing time
- Thread starter 57Strat777
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MrSea
Tele-Meister
I am hard on frets. Bought a ‘52 Hot Rod Tele in 2011 and a Baja Tele in 2013. By around 2017, both needed a re-fret. So I went with stainless on both of them. No need to look back. What I enjoy now is being able to play without worrying about fret wear. They may need some attention at some point but so far I can’t see any wear. As far as I can see, there is no real downside to SS. When played acoustically, there may be a bit of extra ‘clarity’. If anything SS frets may result in a bit of extra sustain, and they do make bending easier. I recently purchased an Eric Johnson Strat and I figure when it comes time for a fret job, it will get SS too.
57Strat777
TDPRI Member
I think playing style and string gauge have a lot to do with that. For example I bought an American Original 50's Tele a couple of years ago which has the vintage size frets (~.040 high) and a 9.5" radius. With 10-46 strings and the vintage frets it was super tough to bend strings. The difficulty is getting your finger under the strings to bend it because the fret is not high enough. So I dropped the tuning down a 1/2 step to make bending easier which helped somewhat. I recently got that guitar refretted with Jescar stainless 6100 size frets and now it is a rock and roll machine.
With taller frets there is less contact between your fingers and the fretboard. This means you can apply less pressure with your finger for the note to ring out. This in turn makes bending, pull-offs and tapping easier.
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57Strat777
TDPRI Member
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srolfeca
Tele-Meister
After looking at those photos, I can't get over the amount of fret wear you got in a year with regular frets. You make a perfect test mule for stainless frets, that's for sure!
I do worry about your hands, though...
My father started out on violin and viola, adding guitar while he was in university, and added various other instruments over the years.
Still, from his mid-20's on, guitar was his main instrument, and worked as a full-time guitar teacher in addition to gigging out. Although he was a dynamic player, he had a good understanding of ergonomics and hand position. Through most of his career, he played about 90% archtop electric with low action, and switched to 10's in his late 40's. He typically only needed his frets dressed about every 5 years.
Still, as the hours mounted up, his fretting hand started to suffer. A tendon release surgery bought him some time, and switching to synth bought him a little more. But the inevitable eventually caught up with him, and osteoarthritis in his left hand forced him to retire at age 60. He wasn't ready to retire, and the loss of his career (and his first love) was a crushing blow.
Nobody likes to talk about it, but many top-flight players have had to seek out hand specialists and/or orthopaedic surgeons in order to save their careers.
If you live in or near a large city, there's probably someone in the area who could help you to learn how to reduce the strain on your hands and wrists. It's far more effective to remove stress before you suffer an injury, than to learn how to play around it after the fact...
I do worry about your hands, though...
My father started out on violin and viola, adding guitar while he was in university, and added various other instruments over the years.
Still, from his mid-20's on, guitar was his main instrument, and worked as a full-time guitar teacher in addition to gigging out. Although he was a dynamic player, he had a good understanding of ergonomics and hand position. Through most of his career, he played about 90% archtop electric with low action, and switched to 10's in his late 40's. He typically only needed his frets dressed about every 5 years.
Still, as the hours mounted up, his fretting hand started to suffer. A tendon release surgery bought him some time, and switching to synth bought him a little more. But the inevitable eventually caught up with him, and osteoarthritis in his left hand forced him to retire at age 60. He wasn't ready to retire, and the loss of his career (and his first love) was a crushing blow.
Nobody likes to talk about it, but many top-flight players have had to seek out hand specialists and/or orthopaedic surgeons in order to save their careers.
If you live in or near a large city, there's probably someone in the area who could help you to learn how to reduce the strain on your hands and wrists. It's far more effective to remove stress before you suffer an injury, than to learn how to play around it after the fact...
My ears are tin cans with strings.
They hear approximately.
That being said, I bought a very well done telecaster/parts caster a couple years ago with a great fret job with essentially medium jumbo stainless frets.
Haaaaated the zinginess the ss wires imparted.
Was stunned that I noticed it.
Had it re-fretted with old-fashioned German silver frets and it sounds great.
Have also reached the age where no matter what theyre made of - I’m never gonna need a refret again…
They hear approximately.
That being said, I bought a very well done telecaster/parts caster a couple years ago with a great fret job with essentially medium jumbo stainless frets.
Haaaaated the zinginess the ss wires imparted.
Was stunned that I noticed it.
Had it re-fretted with old-fashioned German silver frets and it sounds great.
Have also reached the age where no matter what theyre made of - I’m never gonna need a refret again…
I'm interested in this, too. I'm not much of a 'bender' but, I use a capo often and I've often thought that this is why I have deep notches in my frets (1-4) on the G, B & high E strings. My re-frets are normally the first five. Now, I'm in the early stages of my first-ever build and wondering if SS are the way to go. Any advice is appreciated.
goodguy
Tele-Meister
Good info.
SS frets greatly affect the feel of the guitar (i.e. tension/bends). That may be bad/good depending upon the player.
Context: I sold my stainless fret MusicMan Cutlass because the action was too slinky regardless of string gauge. At the time, I blamed the scale length & small neck size -but- more recently thinking the "greasy" feel of the stainless frets was a big factor in why I didn't like the perceived "tension" on bends. Great guitar but no matter what I tried, the feel/tension just didn't work for me.
I know Paul Reed Smith said he doesn't offer stainless frets due to tonal reasons (I'd also say that PRS pays particular attention to tension/feel of his guitars so maybe there's something to have a bit more resistance under finger than SS provides?).
I guess if you play a ton, are hard on frets & don't mind the "silky" SS feel, it's a great option.
My big question:
Can "upgrading" to SS frets f'up the feel/tone of your favorite ax (akin to putting super durable tires on your car; they last a long time, but the ride is no longer as good as what the engineers originally designed .. there's always a tradeoff).
SS frets greatly affect the feel of the guitar (i.e. tension/bends). That may be bad/good depending upon the player.
Context: I sold my stainless fret MusicMan Cutlass because the action was too slinky regardless of string gauge. At the time, I blamed the scale length & small neck size -but- more recently thinking the "greasy" feel of the stainless frets was a big factor in why I didn't like the perceived "tension" on bends. Great guitar but no matter what I tried, the feel/tension just didn't work for me.
I know Paul Reed Smith said he doesn't offer stainless frets due to tonal reasons (I'd also say that PRS pays particular attention to tension/feel of his guitars so maybe there's something to have a bit more resistance under finger than SS provides?).
I guess if you play a ton, are hard on frets & don't mind the "silky" SS feel, it's a great option.
My big question:
Can "upgrading" to SS frets f'up the feel/tone of your favorite ax (akin to putting super durable tires on your car; they last a long time, but the ride is no longer as good as what the engineers originally designed .. there's always a tradeoff).
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OmegaWoods
Tele-Afflicted
He didn’t say SS frets. He said he put SS strings on his guitar and his (non-stainless) frets wore faster.
Sea Devil
Friend of Leo's
I've never had stainless frets, but I have a couple of guitars with the Jescar EVO frets, which are harder than the standard nickel. My strategy to avoid fret wear has been to avoid steel wrapped strings and play only nickel wraps. That definitely slows down the (inevitable) wear. Flats can help as well, if they work with a given guitar.
The OP's style has lots of deep bends, which flatten frets in broad areas, and an aggressive vibrato arm, which tends to make narrow, almost notch-like indentations. Sometimes he does both at the same time. That has the potential to eat up the frets pretty quickly.
What I find interesting, 57Strat777, maybe even a little quirky, is your emphatic preference for higher frets. I think you could get a lot more life out of them if you could adjust your preferences slightly. IME, the higher one's frets are, the faster they wear, and they seem to wear the least at a range of height where they're just barely too low for you. That would be when they're about .042"-.047" high. (They get too low for me at around .028-.032".)
The OP's style has lots of deep bends, which flatten frets in broad areas, and an aggressive vibrato arm, which tends to make narrow, almost notch-like indentations. Sometimes he does both at the same time. That has the potential to eat up the frets pretty quickly.
What I find interesting, 57Strat777, maybe even a little quirky, is your emphatic preference for higher frets. I think you could get a lot more life out of them if you could adjust your preferences slightly. IME, the higher one's frets are, the faster they wear, and they seem to wear the least at a range of height where they're just barely too low for you. That would be when they're about .042"-.047" high. (They get too low for me at around .028-.032".)
Brad1
TDPRI Member
57Strat777, could you please let us know where you sent your guitar to have the frets replaced with stainless. I have a Fender Strat that I would like to have the frets replaced with stainless. I wear my frets out pretty fast and have to get this guitar refretted about every other year and though the shop I take it to does excellent work, they don't do stainless. I bought a Suhr Classic Antique about 4 yrs back. It came from the factory with stainless frets. Virtually no wear showing on the stainless frets. I wish more manufacturers used stainless.
CVS54
Tele-Meister
Great thread. I also play lots of hours, but I spread the work over a number of different guitars. Back when I only had 2 electric guitars, I was having to get fret shaves fairly often and even had to completly replace frets on one of the guitars. I don't have a single guitar that has stainless frets , but based based on this thread, I am going to start looking around for a guitar that has them. I want a T style guitar that has a rosewood fretboard with P90 neck pick up and humbucker in the bridge. LSL has made something like this in the past, but they are hard to find right now. I will add stainless frets to the list of requirements 
. For me, the less maintence, the better, which is why for the most part, I use solid state amps for practicing and gigs.
. For me, the less maintence, the better, which is why for the most part, I use solid state amps for practicing and gigs.
Arfage
Tele-Holic
I thought you guys might like to hear about the fret wear on my Strat that has Jescar stainless frets. I have about 6000 hours of playing time on these frets. The frets are the largest that Jescar makes (model 58118-S), which are .058" tall and .118" wide. I had these frets installed in January of 2016. I play from 3-4 hours every day and only miss playing my guitar 2 or 3 days a year. I have other guitars but this Strat gets played 90% of the time. A conservative estimate is I'm putting over 1000 hours per year of playing time on this Strat, so about 6000 total hours of playing time on the frets over the last 6 years. I also wipe mineral oil on the strings and the back of the neck before I play to reduce hand friction. I imagine the mineral oil may also reduce wear on the frets to a slight degree. I use D'Addario Nickel Wound 10-46 strings. I am an aggressive player and tend to wear out standard frets in about a year or about 1000 hours. I hope these details help in understanding the variables.
I just had the second fret level done due to fret wear. The first fret level was done about 3 years ago. So I am needing a fret level about every 3000 hours. The frets started out new at .058" tall and after the second level the frets are now .049" tall. I start having occasional issues bending strings when the frets get below .050, so it won't be long before I'll get it refretted. Based on my experience with standard frets versus stainless frets, I would say you'll get about 6 times the life out of a set of stainless frets over standard material frets. I hope this information helps people when it comes time to get their guitar refretted
If you want to hear the guitar and my playing style, here's a Hey Joe cover:
Here is the guitar:
Excellent, thanks for monitoring that situation; you are the first I've read. Something manufacturers don't print. I don't play as much as you and I play about 9 guitars I always have out so I won't wear the SS frets I have on two parts strats, 6000 size frets, what brand or model I don't know - they're Musikraft necks. They are 12" radius. What radius do you have?
Arfage
Tele-Holic
BTW my SS fretted necks just play a little easier than the similar sized nickel sliver frets I use in my Les Paul and other Musikraft necks.
57Strat777
TDPRI Member
Sure thing. Pete Skermetta, the owner at Rocket Science has refretted 4 guitars for me with stainless frets. His fret work is superb and I am super picky. He charges about $400 for a stainless steel refret on a bolt on neck. Pete is in Austin, TX. Here is his webpage: https://www.rockitscienceguitars.com/
I grabbed this fretwork picture from Pete's page
My main gigging guitar for several years was my 2006 Carvin CT6M which I ordered with SS medium jumbo frets. 16 years later, played almost daily although not gigged anymore the frets are like new. A big fan and amplified I hear no difference compared to nickle-silver frets.
jnovac1
TDPRI Member
check out aperio guitars in georgia. excellent.
This is a great post. I have been looking into SS frets for a while now. After getting string buzz, I had my frets leveled and it played nice for about a month before I had worn them back into fret buzz. I play about 2-3 hours per session and 3-4 times per week, not as much as you, but certainly enough to burn through nickel frets in no time.
How much did the installation of SS frets cost?
How much did the installation of SS frets cost?
stylemessiah
Tele-Meister
They would last so much longer if you had a proper 6 screw trem
57Strat777
TDPRI Member
The current pricing with the guy I use is about $400 for a SS refret on a bolt on neck.
