SRV: No Pinky + 3-Finger Bends

[TheNewSteveH]

Last night I was watching my "Live at the Mocambo" DVD, featuring Stevie Ray Vaughan. For the first time, I really looked at his technique. I noticed two things that surprised me.

1. His left pinky rarely touches the strings. That freaked me out, because his playing is so busy. On top of that, not using the pinky is a major guitar no-no.

2. He bends strings with THREE fingers, over and over and over. He's not using one genetically superior finger to bend 13's.

He also picks way up against the neck, which I find difficult. I tend to mute strings unintentionally, and fast picking is always easier close to the bridge, because the strings don't move as much.

Has anyone else noticed this stuff? I've tried to play some of his licks, and now I feel like I have to go back and try to do it his way.

Ordered two more DVD's.

 

[Wally]

1) there is no explanation for how many fingers a player uses.....or in breakable rules, IMHO. In training, I do believe in trying to get beginners to use all fingers....but who is gonna try and correct someone who played as well as SRV did?

2) IMHO and ime, there is no finger that is 'genetically' superior to another enough to escape the reality that supporting the bending finger with the fingers behind it is technically superior in strenghth and control. I first read about supporting the bending finger in this manner over 40 years ago in GP.

3) for me, picking position on the strings is a matter of tone and nothing else.

 

[TheNewSteveH]

I picked up two useful bits of info here. One was that my guesses at his left-hand fingering were wrong, so I can try it his way and see if there are benefits. The other was that bending with three or four fingers isn't just for the handicapped.

Over the last couple of weeks, I have been working hard on applying less pressure to the strings and using multiple fingers to do bends. Helpful stuff.

 

[Tim Bowen]

1. His left pinky rarely touches the strings. That freaked me out, because his playing is so busy. On top of that, not using the pinky is a major guitar no-no.

Many rock, blues, and blues rock players, including a lot of famous guys, eschew use of the pinky and get a lot of mileage out of using three fingers instead of four. Personally I tend to adjust approach* depending on what's being played, but even when playing with a blues mentality, tend to favor more of a one-finger-per-fret M.O. much of the time, and get more facility that way. Plus, my pinky is much better at pulloffs than is my third/ring finger. But there's probably a veritable who's who of well known 'three finger' blues and rock players.

2. He bends strings with THREE fingers, over and over and over. He's not using one genetically superior finger to bend 13's.

Not sure if you mean three different fingers used individually and sporadically, or three fingers working together in tandem for a consistent move.

The third/ring finger is the Spartacus of fingers when it comes to string bending and often does the lion's share of heavy lifting for many players. The first and second fingers back up and support the third finger by helping it push the string.

I do believe that all four of the fretting fingers should be able to bend effectively, and I do use all of them for bending, as needed. For instance, if a repeating riff features a bend on the fret assigned to my second finger within that particular riff, I won't reassign and have the third finger pick up the bend each time, I'll let the second/index finger pick it up, since it is repeating and would throw off fingering for the balance of the riff if defaulting each time to the third finger for the bends.

* In improvising solos, it sometimes becomes necessary to anticipate bending moves in advance, and in order to accomodate the upcoming bends, reassign fingers for standard fretting to more of a three finger approach, as opposed to a one-finger-per-fret method; in cases where there are a lot of whole step bends, and it is desired to have the third finger pick up all or most of the bends (as supported by the first and second fingers), this sometimes winds up being the approach for myself. Jimmy Page's ride on "Stairway to Heaven" is an example of a solo that contains lots of whole step bends, and reassigning some of the fretting fingers for certain passages in order to favor the third finger for bending, can make a lot of sense.

 

[Wally]

IMe, the fingers behind the bending finger are not applied to the string with force....they merely support that one finger 'within the hand' so to speak. Try this jsut for grins. Use that ring finger with the index and middle fingers up above the string. NOw, siply place the index and middle fingers down to the string but not fretting and try the bend...much easier. IT has to do with the biomechanics of the hand and are. When you pull fingers away, the fretting finger is weakened, ime.

 

[telemnemonics]

How he did stuff may leave out WHY he did stuff, and some of the stuff he did may have been chosen for some developed ideals while other stuff may have been compensation for problems created by the first "stuff".
It's hard to say which idiosyncrasies helped and which just happened.

He started playing as a kid and developed very quickly before physically growing up AFAIK, so much of his technique may be based in playing adult size guitars with kid size hands.

 

[MilwMark]

Hey SteveH -

I don't mean any offense by this. So take in the spirit it's intended. And I'll offer that even though I play in two current bands and do some "studio" stuff other/other projects - I periodically take lessons when I want to learn something new, or get stale, or reach a new level of "understanding" on something and want to leverage a teacher's skill and experience to capitalize on it faster, reach a new level, etc.

Anyway, with that long disclaimer aside, I would submit maybe you should consider lessons with a teacher. From your posts I take that you are smart, and have some musical knowledge, but are trying to learn guitar on your own.

There are some really basic things (like supporting a bend with fingers behind the fretting finger, for instance) a good teacher can show you that will speed you along on lots of things that are very obvious when you know them - but not so obvious until you know to ask. I think a teacher could break you out of all kinds of plateaus/questions very, very quickly and with your smarts, curiosity and banjo background, speed you right along on guitar.

Again, I hope you read/take this in the spirit intended - not criticism.

 

[Wally]

Stevie's first 'lessons' on the guitar as I understand it came from his older brother Jimmy. Imho, Jimmy's technique leaves much to be desired even though he gets done what he wants to get done. One of the things he does is to stretch that ring finger out and ignore the use of the pinky...I am sure SRV got this from his introduction to the gutiar by his big brother. FWiw, this use of only 3 fingeres is not the major problem I have with J.V.'s technique....but like I said...he gets done what he wants to get done.

 

[k.l.k]

three-finger technique is common in older blues-- jimmy and stevie were just imitating the older players. there were (are) always exceptions, but minimizing use of the fourth finger was part of the picking culture.

there are different explanations for why that was-- one possibility is that so much of early blues used slides, that it was good technically to reserve that pinky for a bottleneck. another hypothesis is that the thumb wrap made use of the pinky less efficient. still another points to heavy, crummy rusty strings (i.e. most strings on most guitars before ww2) as contributing. probably a mix of all of those, and once something becomes a tradition, on an instrument most folks learned by watching and listening, it gets passed down.

and neck/soundhole picking, especially for fingerpickers, also seems to have been pretty common, although we're basically relying on photos for much of the evidence. the techniques developed on the small, popular acoustics and then were adopted to electrics. even charlie christian, according to barney kessel, seldom used his fourth finger.

the thumb under the neck, fourth finger involved, seems to have come over from the european classical tradition.

 

[Jakeboy]

Leslie West has gone on record stating that when he plays lead he only uses 2 fingers...index and ring. I use all 4 cause I need all the help I can get! I bend with the pinky all the time.

 

[ColonelPanic]

I must admit, for the very rare occasions I play a lead blues, I tend not to use my pinky finger either, with the exception of a 4 note chromatic run on the same string. I'm more than happy playing my extended jazz runs and progressions with it though.

Another thing I noticed about SRV though is how much he fiddles with the knobs and PU selector in the middle of songs, it's as if his hands don't have enough to do already!!

 

[Tim Bowen]

Like many of my generation, I initially learned by teaching myself, armed with the then current educational method of choice for DIY guitarists - ruining your records. In emulating the rock and roll records of the day, by ear, I played and learned using a three finger approach, and did so for many years.

The four finger, one-finger-per-fret approach didn't find its way into my personal agenda until much later; this came about when studying for four years with a Berklee alumnus, initially via Bill Leavitt's 'A Modern Method For Guitar' series of books.

As with most things technique-wise, I'm quite glad that I've went after it 'both' ways; I believe each approach contains elements of "you can't get there from here" that the opposite approach addresses, enables and/or promotes. There's very little that we talk about around here for which I adopt a strict 'either/or' approach, including the business at hand, as well as argument fodder topics such as the old warhorse 'anchor vs. no anchor' debate that randomly rears its head among guitarheads through the ages.

 

[rze99]

There are no rules about fingers.

Vis Django Reinhardt.

There are just standards that work for the majority, but definitely not all. So do try what Stevie did just to see.

I'm right handed, yet when I drum, I lead with my left hand, but only on a right-handed kit in what is known as "open style". I can't drum as well any other way. There is nothing else in my entire life where the left side is dominant. Figure that one.

 

[surfoverb]

Clapton never uses his pinky but Jimmy Page does.
there are no rules.

what I do is use my pinky up to the 12th then swich to 3rd finger.
the problem with this is you have to think about it until it comes second nature.

watch hendrix he does most bends I do with my pinky with his 2nd finger!
But he had hands so big it made Shaq blush.

maybe off topic but 5 Finger Exercise is a great movie.
the chick from His Girl Friday (rosalind russel)....anywho

 

[Bill Hell]

Not to discourage you, but you should of noticed this... Stevie Ray Vaughn was blessed with HUGE Hands! If you watch the mtv unplugged he just destroys this 12 string like it was nothing and yes blowing even Joe Satraini off the stage that night..

I'm not a big fan of doing some of his songs like Texas flood for this reason. Some of those bends just wears out my little hands and I get tired of all the 1,4,5 progressions but I really dig his jazzy blues songs like Stangs swang.. and Dirty pool is killer.
A true hardcore honkytonker and legend not often seen.

 

[TheNewSteveH]

Anyway, with that long disclaimer aside, I would submit maybe you should consider lessons with a teacher. From your posts I take that you are smart, and have some musical knowledge, but are trying to learn guitar on your own.

Actually, I did that. But what I've found is that every teacher is wrong about something, so you have to keep looking for information.

My teacher tried to convince me light strings were no good, and he didn't teach me to use two or three fingers together to bend strings. He's 6'8" and lifts weights, so I'm not sure he can relate to people who are easier to injure. He has no problem bending the third string halfway to Georgia. I had some joint issues, and I am working to take the unnecessary stress and force out of my fretting. I can't take a chance on screwing my hand up.

I'm using Justinguitar.com right now, and it has been really helpful. If things keep going well, I may go back to see my teacher.

 

[TheNewSteveH]

I'm not really that interested in learning a lot of SRV material, but I think there is a lot to learn from watching him, even if you apply it to other music.

 

[GuitOp81]

Last night I was watching my "Live at the Mocambo" DVD, featuring Stevie Ray Vaughan. For the first time, I really looked at his technique. I noticed two things that surprised me.

1. His left pinky rarely touches the strings. That freaked me out, because his playing is so busy. On top of that, not using the pinky is a major guitar no-no.

2. He bends strings with THREE fingers, over and over and over. He's not using one genetically superior finger to bend 13's.

He also picks way up against the neck, which I find difficult. I tend to mute strings unintentionally, and fast picking is always easier close to the bridge, because the strings don't move as much.

Has anyone else noticed this stuff? I've tried to play some of his licks, and now I feel like I have to go back and try to do it his way.

Ordered two more DVD's.

He is not the only one, actually I suspect that most of the best guitar players , especially those who sound like natural and very creative improvisers, only occasionally use their pinky. The list is long but I watched videos of Hendrix, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Ed Bickert, of course Django Reinhardt , and Charlie Christian (no videos here!) also (it seems) used to do the same.

My theory is that, although probably they developed that approach because nobody taught them better, using only three fingers forces your left hand to move much more and break out of the position boxes. It forces you to follow the notes instead of pushing buttons. For instance Ed Bickert often chases his melodies just with his index fingers up and down one string instead of using the other fingers and strings.

Mick Goodrick teaches something like that, I believe he calls it the science of the unitar or something similar, where he tells you to improvise a melody using only one string and one finger.

 

[MilwMark]

Actually, I did that. But what I've found is that every teacher is wrong about something, so you have to keep looking for information.

My teacher tried to convince me light strings were no good, and he didn't teach me to use two or three fingers together to bend strings. He's 6'8" and lifts weights, so I'm not sure he can relate to people who are easier to injure. He has no problem bending the third string halfway to Georgia. I had some joint issues, and I am working to take the unnecessary stress and force out of my fretting. I can't take a chance on screwing my hand up.

I'm using Justinguitar.com right now, and it has been really helpful. If things keep going well, I may go back to see my teacher.

Never met the guy or took lessons from him. But from what you describe I think you can find a better teacher. Keep plugging away and having fun though.

 

[Mayas caster]

One other great guitarist who almost never use his small finger is Frank Marino and he 's not the worst of the gang... It's strange for me reading about how or what SRV was doing when you know he couldn't read music. He was playing from the soul...