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Squier Esquire vintage vs. Eldred wiring - differences??

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Boreas, Apr 16, 2021.

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  1. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Sorry if this has been covered, shoot me...

    Just bought a Squier CV 50s Esquire. It has the vintage wiring with 3 identical wafer caps and a resistor. I am not keen on the volume drop I get in the "bridge" position (3). The tone is fine. What I am trying to figure out is what does the Eldred modification do - just using the single, lower value cap?

    What is the difference in tone? Volume?

    What happens if I simply remove the resistor ONLY from the vintage circuit, leaving the 3 caps behind? Would there be less loss of output/volume? Change in tone?

    I would remove the resistor myself, but I don't know if I could cram it back in again if I didn't like it. I guess I could also attempt to bypass the resistor with a jumper, but I would need to remove some shrink tubing that covers the union with the cap. As you can see, things are kinda tight around that resistor.

    20210415_103523.jpg IMG_20210415_103900.jpg origin.jpg

    If I decided to go Eldred, I would just wire up a new plate with upgraded components, but these components see just fine. But I could leave the vintage plate intact. Thoughts??
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  2. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I guess everybody is busy these days...
     
  3. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    The resistor/cap are active in position #3, yes, but that's the position closest to the headstock, not the bridge.

    So-called 'bridge' position is #1, and is just pickup to vol, no caps, no tone.

    You would experience a volume drop in position 3 (not 'bridge' position).


    I hope that puts us on the same page. The resistor drops the volume a bit, nothing more. Well... the effect is also that the low end is less boomy.

    The Eldred mod is completely different. Not a bass cut at all. And not much of a treble cut. Just a very small fixed treble cut.
     
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  4. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    Position 3 is useless on the Squier Esquire. I assume it was that way on the original Fender Esquire as well.
     
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  5. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Yes, and that might be the reason the OP is looking to change it, don't you think?
     
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  6. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    I would assume so. I'm just not sure what useful options there are for position 3 with a simple single coil pickup.
     
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  7. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Yes, you are correct - brain fart. I thought I had edited it, but I guess I didn't. It won't let me now...

    I'm back...

    That was my impression of the Eldred. I don't think I want to go down that road, unless I do it in a spare plate wired specifically that way. I would like to keep the OEM plate intact, and possibly wiring another, omitting the resistor.

    I got off on this search because of a video I saw that demo'd the dark circuit, but I don't recall which circuit it was, nor can I even find the video again. It might have been a video in a website, but not a YT video. Most videos I find sound just like mine - a drop in volume and upper end. Not bad, but it makes it difficult to change switch positions mid-song - similar to the effect of splitting a HB mid-song. The video that surprised me showed little, if any volume drop and sounded almost like an active bass circuit. It sounded just like a baritone/bass. But it was essentially a stock Esquire. I suspect the signal was juiced somewhat with an EQ pedal or something, but it wasn't disclosed. That is basically the tone I am chasing. I wouldn't mind a 10% drop in volume, but 30% is difficult to work with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  8. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Actually, I find it very interesting. That is why I bought the guitar.
     
  9. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Allotta people like the 3rd position for rhythm. But that is what I am trying to figure out - are they liking the Eldred mod or the vintage scheme? Or something else entirely?
     
  10. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    One thing I haven't experimented with, because I doubt it would yield the result I am looking for, is altering the pickup height. I was leaving that until after I polish the frets and adjust the nut/action and switch to my normal 10s. But honestly, I don't see how it would make #3 stronger relative to #1 & #2. This is why I settled on the resistor as a solution.
     
  11. ScribbleSomething

    ScribbleSomething Tele-Holic

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    @Boreas my understanding is a resister and cap in series acts as a bass cut.

    So bypassing it would get you a lot of your volume back but also make it boomy - as someone described earlier.

    I am a fan of the stock dark wiring also. I wouldn’t describe it as high as a 30% cut. But I have my pickup very close to the stings on my Esquire
     
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  12. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Thanks! That is the input I was looking for. My pups are probably pushing 1/4". Still a ton of balanced output, but just in #1/2. Perhaps just raising the bass side would help.

    What about ditching the resistor WHILE increasing the value of the cap? Would that help cut out less bass relative to treble?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  13. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Indeed! I am trying to make it less useless.
     
  14. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Maybe it's just me, but my home built P90 Ess-Kwire (Eldred mod) is my "bad boy guitar". It comes out when things are getting hot & squirrelly. I liken her to a lusty lady pirate, just add rum, matey.
     
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  15. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I hears ya! I think I too would prefer a P-90. I find the high-end bite/icepick of the SC in #1 pretty intense for MY purposes in the living room. I think I would prefer a growl to a shriek. Onstage I would appreciate it much more, but I will never see a stage. But I want to explore the vintage SC options first. This is just a knowledge-quest. I have a Bullet platform that may become an Esquire-esque P-90 beast.

    What wiring/values are you using for the P-90?
     
  16. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I am currently using the original Eldred values for the caps and Fender OEM pots & switch, but do not recall specifics. I bought all the guts from Stew Mac.

    Everything I have is unique to some degree. I loaded mine with a GFS P90 that they offer in a humbucker case. It was easier to find a traditional-ish tailpiece for a humbucker size. However, that will take a different or modified pickguard than a typical Esquire.
     
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  17. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I also have a DuoSonic with a HB bridge rout that could be a donor as well. I already have a HB-sized P-90 installed, but the SC neck pup (S/M Golden Age) is pretty sweet. Don't know if I could live without it. I s'pose I could just disconnect it for a while and try the P-90/Eldred mod and see what transpires.
     
  18. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Understand that this is a rabbit hole in itself. I personally am not finished exploring it & there is a related project on the horizon which includes an identical guitar except equipped with a ghost neck pickup and the option to switch between Tele & Esquire modes.
     
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  19. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    @Boreas, why not use alligator clips to bypass cap/resistor, or just resistor, and see what it sounds like? Use your ears...
     
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  20. Boreas

    Boreas Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I plan to TRY that in a couple days, but things are very tight around the resistor. I may not have enough room for clips.
     
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