Splitting buffered signal

[thesamhill]

I understand that you don't really want to use a passive Y-splitter to split a signal straight from the guitar- treble loss, signal strength, etc.

However, I can't seem to get a fix on splitting a signal that is already buffered.

Some internet threads say you can put a passive y-splitter after a buffer, and that this will not result in that treble loss and volume drop (sorry if that's the wrong term) you get from using a passive Y-splitter right after a passive pickup.

Others seem to say you still need a buffered splitter, even after a buffered pedal.

Can anyone clear this up for me?

My specific application is this: I've got a TC Helicon VoiceLive 3. I'd like to split the signal from the stereo guitar outputs so that both the left and right side go to A) the main mix and B) a multitrack field recorder.

Up to now, I'd been using the left and right outputs of the VL3 as a splitter, but I'm doing some stuff in stereo now so I need a solution where I can split the separate Left and Right outputs each into 2 other outputs.

Thanks!

 

[luckett]

You should be fine as long as the input impedance is sufficiently high relative to the output impedance.

 

[sirbergersworth]

I would build a box with a passive splitter followed by a buffer for each split and see how that goes. You may or may not have phasing issues. You could easily add another gain stage on the input of your circuit that may help. That would be three buffers in one box. One buffer on way in and one on each output.

 

[luckett]

That would be three buffers in one box. One buffer on way in and one on each output.

He already has three buffers configured like you describe. One in the output of the TC Helicon, one in the input of the mixer, and one in the input of the recorder. That's why just using a passive splitter would work fine.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

My specific application is this: I've got a TC Helicon VoiceLive 3. I'd like to split the signal from the stereo guitar outputs so that both the left and right side go to A) the main mix and B) a multitrack field recorder.

Sam, have you tried just using the channel outputs on the mixer? This would save you having to use/buy a splitter...or two splitters I guess.

 

[thesamhill]

Thanks all!


THE BUFFER SITUATION

If I'm understanding things correctly: If you have a tone or volume control on one side of the splitter without a buffer between the control and the splitter, whatever the control sends to ground will affect both sides of the split. So turning the volume down on the mixer would drop the volume on the recording. That's what I'm trying to avoid.


THE COMMENTS ABOVE

@luckett is saying that if my recorder (a Zoom H4N, older model) has buffered inputs and the mixer has buffered inputs, I'm OK with a passive split because there's buffers everywhere I would need them. I think this will be true probably 90% of the time. The other 10% would be times when the house mixer was unpowered or when I went into an amp rather than the PA.

@sirbergersworth is saying to make a buffer box with buffers at both sides of the output. This way, no matter what I'm plugging into, I'm covered. Makes sense for the other 10%.

@Junkyard Dog is saying to use the channel outs on the mixer to do the splitting. I would do this if it was using my own mixer, and it may be that the best long-term solution here is simply to get my own mixer that has what I need. But I'm using a lot of different mixers and amps.


THE SOLUTION THAT USES WHAT I ALREADY HAVE AVAILABLE

In my application, there would be 2 splitters, each with an input, a mixer output, and a recorder output.

- The stereo outputs on the VL3 are buffered, so I'm OK for the 2 input buffers.
- as long as the Zoom H4N inputs are buffered, I'm OK for buffers on the 2 "recording" sides of the split. I actually don't know if it does, will research further, but I'll assume so for now.
- this leaves the mixer outputs. I have a Jamman Express XT that I could use to buffer the mixer outputs, as it has 2 independent buffered paths that are plenty transparent for my needs. I will probably end up trying to make a few of these buffers <http://www.muzique.com/lab/buffers.htm> and/or these splitters <http://www.muzique.com/lab/splitter.htm> when I get the chance so I don't have to carry that pedal around just for the buffers.


Please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, and thanks for the help!

 

[luckett]

If you have a tone or volume control on one side of the splitter without a buffer between the control and the splitter, whatever the control sends to ground will affect both sides of the split. So turning the volume down on the mixer would drop the volume on the recording. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

You'll already have a buffer between the split and controls, so this is not an issue.

I think this will be true probably 90% of the time. The other 10% would be times when the house mixer was unpowered or when I went into an amp rather than the PA.

Unpowered mixers will still have a buffer on the input and the amp should have a high impedance input. You can just put any buffered pedal between the split and amp to resolve any impedance issues you may have running into an amp.

- as long as the Zoom H4N inputs are buffered, I'm OK for buffers on the 2 "recording" sides of the split. I actually don't know if it does, will research further, but I'll assume so for now.

All electronic devices like these have buffered inputs.

Go simple first and try the passive splitter to see how it works.

 

[thesamhill]

@luckett I will definitely try the passive splitter first and go from there. Thank for the help!

 

[Junkyard Dog]

I have a Jamman Express XT that I could use to buffer the mixer outputs, as it has 2 independent buffered paths that are plenty transparent for my needs.

Please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong, and thanks for the help!

Sam, it looks like the Jamman Express XT is "true bypass". I never sure if that is just a marketing term, but I thought that indicated NO buffering. Although...I guess you could turn the loop on to engage the buffered paths and just let it run, being careful to not stop it during the song/show . What happens when it reaches the maximum loop length (10 minutes)?

 

[thesamhill]

Jamman Express XT is "true bypass"

Shoot, you're right! The Express XT is true bypass, it's the Solo XT that is buffered. Thanks, I'm glad you pointed that out! OK, well, if it turns out that I DO need that buffer for the mixer/amp side I'm sure I've got something somewhere that I can use. This is why I don't often sell the stuff I don't use- I somehow always find a use for it later

 

[Junkyard Dog]

This is why I don't often sell the stuff I don't use- I somehow always find a use for it later

Ha! I'm the same way. Never sell anything...well maybe some big ticket items, but I can't be bothered to sell a pedal for fifty bucks or whatever.

FYI, if you have a Boss TU-2 (or similar stage tuner) in the pile, that can be used as a splitter. Although one of the two outputs is labelled "Bypass", they are both actually (I think...going on memory and would have to double check the schematic to be 100% certain) buffered outputs.