Species of Pine used for 1950 Esquire

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thehackberry

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Hey everyone,

I'm planning a build of the original 1950 Esquire made of 1.5" laminated pine and want to figure out the exact species of pine used. You can see the guitar in this video and I have some screenshots below. I'm leaning towards Eastern White Pine because of the way it looks but want to get a second opinion from all you knowledgeable folks. What do you all think?

CALIFORNIA_01_ESQUIRE.jpg

w6iEGzL.png

nlEhien.png

dPiFLyO.png
 
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RodeoTex

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I'm guessing white pine. Whatever the amp cabinets were made of at the time. I've read several places that Leo just used that material because it was already there.
 

thehackberry

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I’ve been searching high and low and can’t figure out how Leo got a piece of pine wide enough for a Tele. The widest board from the lumber yard is 1x12 which is less than the 13” width of a Tele. From the pictures it doesn’t look like multiple pieces are joined width-wise. I suppose he could have gone to a lumber mill to get an extra wide board but that seems like too much work for someone as practical as Leo Fender.
 

teletimetx

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In my non-expert opinion, and from reading the Nachos Banos book, I don’t think Fender cared one whit about the species of pine used for the early prototypes and esquires.

Nor is there any record, AFAIK, that Fender consistently used any particular species for all of the pine bodies. According to most reliable sources, the transition from pine to ash was made in the summer of 1950.

What is available now at lumber stores and what was available in 1950 are two different things.

In any event, most of the early pine bodies were finished in black or in white, and were sandwiched, front & back, so a one-piece esthetic wasn’t a goal.

The video linked by the OP doesn’t present any evidence that the body of that esquire was the original body. I’m not saying it isn’t, but even if it is, I don’t think that’s the original finish.

Some of the early pine bodies were “snake heads” as well. I don’t know how common it was to find pine bodies without the snake headstock.

Seeing as his the OP is from California, might be more consistent to use Western White Pine or Monterey Pine or a Red Pine. Eastern WP would work just as well. Might just depend on what is reasonably available.
 

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clydethecat

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I’ve been searching high and low and can’t figure out how Leo got a piece of pine wide enough for a Tele. The widest board from the lumber yard is 1x12 which is less than the 13” width of a Tele. From the pictures it doesn’t look like multiple pieces are joined width-wise. I suppose he could have gone to a lumber mill to get an extra wide board but that seems like too much work for someone as practical as Leo Fender.

He didn't. Each pinecaster was made from four pieces of 3/4" pine. They're glued up for thickness and for width.
 

thehackberry

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He didn't. Each pinecaster was made from four pieces of 3/4" pine. They're glued up for thickness and for width.

That’s what I would have thought too but I can’t see any glue lines in the 1950 Esquire body that indicate pieces were joined for width.
 

vhilts1

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Ive done alot of research on early 50's bodies. The most predominant species used were lumberyardia appearanceboardicus pinus lambertiana and lumberyardia appearanceboardicus pinus monticola
 

thehackberry

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Ive done alot of research on early 50's bodies. The most predominant species used were lumberyardia appearanceboardicus pinus lambertiana and lumberyardia appearanceboardicus pinus monticola

Lumberyardia appearanceboardicus, that’s scientific Latin right? [emoji6]

How did you figure out that sugar pine and western white pine were used?
 

Marn99

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I know that it was a soft pine, based on contemporary reports about how easily it dented, but whether or not it was a western species like monterey or an eastern one like eastern white, it's hard to tell. Both are likely candidates, and given that both Sugar Maple and Black Walnut, for the neck and the later added skunk stripe, respectively, were eastern species, clearly Leo wasn't opposed to using species east of the rockies. It certainly wasn't Southern Yellow Pine, that stuff is pretty strong, weather resistant, and dense. In fact, some of Titanic's decking was Southern Yellow Pine, the rest being Pitch Pine.
 
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vhilts1

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"Most likely" CA lumber yards werent stocking Eastern White 2x material. Maple and walnut are another discussion since those were used as specific use material in a structural sense.
Just some reasoned guesses. Lol. There are other varieties of western pine that couldve been 2x material I just picked the 2 most prevalent and the 2 Ive heard other knowledgeable sources mention. It likely wont matter much beyond surface appearance
 

clydethecat

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If this top is two pieces where's the seam? I could be blind but I don't see it.
View attachment 743471

Maybe along the centerline of the control cavity???

I don't doubt that when production volume was very low, exceptions to the rules may exist.

Some of the sandwich bodies were hollow, and some were solid, no? Production methods could have been in a constant state of flux.
 

Marn99

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Here's a (not comprehensive) list of western pines that fall within the soft pine category or share many traits with them, there is some overlap. I'll also add a link to the wood database. https://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/
True soft pines:
Monterey Pine (Pinus radiata)
Western White Pine (Pinus monticola)
Sugar Pine (Pinus lambertiana)
Rocky Mountain White Pine or Limber Pine (Pinus flexilis)
Hard pines that have some soft pine characteristics:
Jeffrey Pine (Pinus jeffreyi)
Ponderosa Pine (Pinus ponderosa)
Lodgepole Pine (Pinus contorta)
 

Marn99

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"Most likely" CA lumber yards werent stocking Eastern White 2x material. Maple and walnut are another discussion since those were used as specific use material in a structural sense.
Just some reasoned guesses. Lol. There are other varieties of western pine that couldve been 2x material I just picked the 2 most prevalent and the 2 Ive heard other knowledgeable sources mention. It likely wont matter much beyond surface appearance
hmm, that is a good point. I know at least one lumberyard that Leo bought from that is still in business, Ganahl Lumber in Anaheim, CA. It's probably not worth asking what they sold to him, those records are probably long gone, but one could take a look at what they currently stock to get a rough idea.
 

Telenator

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It's not pine but, that looks quite similar to Douglas Fir.
Douglas Fir is far more stable and consistent than pine. Way fewer knots too.
 
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