Speaker stupidity

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Askwhy, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Askwhy

    Askwhy Tele-Meister

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    Why doesn't every guitar speaker ever made have the ohms and watts clearly marked as well as the +/- terminals clearly marked? Seems so simple. Same argument for speaker vs instrument cable (i'm talking commercial products, not using your lamp cord), very easy to mark clearly to avoid confusion and possible negative consequences.
     
  2. Boreas

    Boreas Tele-Holic

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    Most good replacement ones are clearly marked. Those that sell to manufacturers may cut a few corners, but usually the markings are visible, or marked on the crate they came in.

    Unless you are using multiple speakers, plus and minus are interchangeable. They are really only used to make sure your phrasing is correct in speaker arrays. Only the ohm rating is truly meaningful, and in that case easily read with a multi-meter.
     
  3. printer2

    printer2 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Could be just a dot of paint on the + terminal. Easy enough to find out, put a 9 volt batery on it and see which way the cone goes. As far as wattage?
     
  4. Askwhy

    Askwhy Tele-Meister

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    Yes I understand how to check +/- and check ohms, folks that know how are not the ones likely to make a mistake. And lots of folks using multiple speakers, phase isn't the end of the world, but my point was really about how simple it would be to mark them to avoid any confusion. Ohms can have big consequences and wattage certainly can as well.
     
  5. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'd imagine when someone like Peavey for example orders a thousand or more of the same speaker cost is an issue. Putting the minimum amount of markings on saves a step or two over the run. Even premium speakers like EVs for example when fitted as original equipment aren't marked like the ones bought by an end user. You wouldn't thing skipping a label or a few markings would make much difference but by the truck load it must.
    Also a lot of old speakers used a small red dot sticker to mark positive, those tended to fall off.
    I do agree it would be nice if they were all marked, they just ain't.
     
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  6. Deeve

    Deeve Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Not a bad idea - not a bad idea at all.
    @BobbyZ - you've said it out loud - bravo

    Peace - Deeve
     
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  7. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I got some complaints about them stripes on resistors!
    And why in hell does Celestion say 15ohms?
    Plus they rate the V30 at both 65w and 70w depending on the use?
    Toobs should all be made matched, why can't they just make them the same?

    Hey at least Jensen used to mark pos & neg backwards but they fixed that.
    What? Jensen went out of business?
    That's one solution...
     
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  8. DougM

    DougM Friend of Leo's

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    Have you ever made a tube? Are you aware of the complexity, the number of chemical processes involved, the microscopic detail it takes to produce even simple tubes? Even in the 30s-70s, when the quality of tubes produced were much higher than now, it was cost prohibitive, and probably scientifically impossible, to have the kind of matching that you think is easy. Do you know the difference in cost between an IC chip bought from Radio Shack vs. the cost of the same chip screened to Mil-Spec levels for Military and Aerospace applications?
     
  9. TeleTucson

    TeleTucson Tele-Afflicted

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    Do you know a sarcastic posting when you see one?
     
  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I hoped that by opening with a complaint about stripes on resistors it would be clear I was joking!

    OTOH Tung Sol 5881 toobs tend to be amazingly close in current draw over something like a decade of production...
     
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  11. DougM

    DougM Friend of Leo's

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    Sorry, I'm stupidly gullible, or stupid AND gullible, lol. Open mouth, insert other foot! Are you talking about original Tung Sol or new Sovtek made ones?
     
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  12. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've never heard this question asked before, but it should have been asked a long time ago.
     
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  13. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Original welded plate with the funny mica suspension.
    Just a comment though not much reliable info behind it!
     
  14. DougM

    DougM Friend of Leo's

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    They were an amazing company, a small operation that invented the mighty 6550, which ushered in the era of high power audio tubes that didn't need a plate cap, and the associated dangers that go with that, and the first widely used tube that could achieve 100W from a pair, instead of a quartet, which was required of EL34 and 6L6 types, to get that kind of power.
     
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  15. DougM

    DougM Friend of Leo's

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    Mike Matthews has done a wonderful job maintaining the legacy of Tung Sol, and the current line seems to be the finest tubes make by the Reflektor/Sovtek factory.
    www.tungsol.com
     
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  16. Collin D Plonker

    Collin D Plonker Tele-Afflicted

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    Oh yeah. I made some for lunch. Oh sorry. I thought you said tuna.
     
  17. Peegoo

    Peegoo Friend of Leo's

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    I keep a little bottle of red nail enamel on my bench for just this purpose.




    And for when I want to paint my toenails because sometimes a guy just likes to feel pretty. And it's only $3.

    Yeah, I know my feet are backwards. It's why I can't dance.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  18. avspecialist

    avspecialist Tele-Meister

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    It’s always good to check your speaker polarity with a battery regardless of the polarity markings on the terminals. I use a 9 volt battery which clearly shows its polarity on the battery. When you put the plus of the battery to the plus marked on the speaker the cone will move forward indicating the voice coil has been installed properly. I do it 3 or 4 times just to make sure. I have received a few times where the polarity is marked correct on the terminals but the speaker was made with reverse polarity. Also, I always measure the DC resistance of the speakers to make sure the rated impedance is correct. I have found vintage JBL’s to have incorrect impedance notations on their speakers, notably the grey frames in my case.

    Doing this will say you a lot of time and aggravation knowing what you are starting with. I do this for every speaker I install.
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I like the Sally Hansen orange nail polish, #329 Sun Kissed.
    Helpful when an old Jensen speaker already has a red dot on the neg terminal.

    I might start putting a dab on the ends of my old Fender pickup leads too since Fender seems to have randomly used every color imaginable with little or no correlation to start vs finish lead.

    And "can't dance" is just another word for misunderstood!
     
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  20. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    because it's what the speaker IMPEDANCE - not DC resistance measured with an ohmmeter - is based on a fixed-frequency, 1,000 cycle per second sine wave.

    DC resistance is a fixed number - but impedance changes as volume and frequency content vary.

    Power ratings are a touchy subject. Some companies use "continuous" power; others RMS; a very few "peak power"

    But the problem is that whichever method is used, it's based on a fixed frequency, clean sine wave. If distortion is added to the signal (and to a lesser extent, very wide frequency dispersion) the power handling can be reduced by 50% - and with really heavy spiked-sawtooth wave distortion over a wide frequency range, even 25%!

    Most companies use a very conservative RMS rating, but if you use a lot of distortion you need to take that into account. JBL used their own power rating method, specifying the D120 & D130 at 100watts.

    But the method was weird - and not close to an RMS rating. The design engineer has spent years posting on audio engineering forums explaining that the clean power handling of the D120 and D130 WAS 60 watts - when new. And any speaker over 20 years old or so will have lost at least 1/3 of its power handling. So an original D120 or D130 (including F versions) now has power handling around FORTY watts - clean...and 20 or less if a lot of distortion is used.

    Several of us locally no longer send them out for recones or install loose JBL speakers into amps or cabs because the failure rate is so high!

    As far as polarity marking - 90% of the newer speakers I see are clearly marked.

    Same with speaker cables - although I wish the marking wasn't just a light embossing or small print - I'd like to see a standard set for a single color stripe used to identify speaker cables that are made with sheaths similar to generic black guitar cables!
     
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