Speaker recommendation for 6G3 Clone

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Crawldaddy, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Heya TDPRI hive mind,

    following up on my last amp-related thread, I've now got a 6G3 clone being built. However, I've asked the builder to do it up without a speaker, so that I can have more time to figure out what I want to use as the voice of the amp.

    Given the fact that I most strongly associate the 6G3 with ZZ Top's first 3 albums, I was wondering what might get me as close as possible to that tone, but with a bit more low-end thump and girth. I'm hoping for a gritty but deeper guitar tone overall. Naturally, I'll be playing my Telecasters through it, but I also use semi-hollows and a Gibson Nighthawk.

    I know that most of you guys have your own preference, but for my purposes, I am going to be using the amp's natural distortion; as in I'll turn up to the club, dime the volume and ride the guitar's volume knob.

    I'll be hoping for speaker recommendations through that lens, as compared to having the amp being used as a clean pedal platform.

    Here are some basic specs I have in mind:

    - 12" speaker diameter
    - not fussed whether it is ceramic or alnico, but max speaker depth is 7"
    - 8 ohms
    - >50 Watts RMS
    - Sensitivity above 95db


    I already have a few in mind:

    Celestion Gold
    Celestion Creamback
    Eminence Swamp Thang
    Eminence Texas Heat
    Eminence CV75
    Weber Alnico Silver Bell


    But let's see what you guys can throw up for consideration, or if you want to out in your vote for any of the speakers I have short-listed thus far, please do so!
     
  2. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Let me suggest the Eminence Maverick... I have one in a 6G2 clone, and the adjustable sensitivity offers greater flexibility. That’s particularly handy when you plan on cranking the amp.

    I’ve yet to have turned the Maverick speaker’s knob above halfway in my rehearsal and gigging experience. Granted, it’s only been gigged once thus far, in a relatively small brewpub. But you get the idea.

    Definitely look into the Maverick. It’s a solid speaker. I’m pretty sure you can also custom order several other Eminence 12” speakers with the adjustable feature, but don’t recall specifics.
     
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  3. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Afflicted

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    I have an Eminence GB128 in an amp that's kind of 5e3/6g3. It's got cathodyne inverter but has fixed bias.
    It's probably the amp I most often use.

    I've liked the gb128 in every amp I've tried it in.
     
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  4. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Why do you want a 50 watt speaker? This amp will never blow a 20 watt speaker unless you hammer it with lots of square wave - which will blow any speaker.

    I'd try the new GA-12 SC59 alnico tophat speaker. I think it would be the ideal match for this amp. From the samples it's a great Brown/Tweed spec.
     
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  5. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I love the gold and creamback and cream.,and I have.
    However, if you want amp distortion, those are too high
    of a watt for you to get it right away.

    You may look for lower...Like maybe a blue or a greenie or p12q.

    imho
     
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  6. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Hello, thank you for the recommendation! I've come across the Maverick while looking through different speakers, but how would you describe its character, are there any frequencies it tends to accentuate?
     
  7. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Hey man, thank for the recommendation. May I ask, does the speaker accentuate any particular frequencies?
     
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  8. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Hmm, well maybe I'm just going on anecdotal evidence but my understanding is that certain (and not all of course) speakers of a higher wattage rating also tend to have correspondingly higher speaker sensitivity.

    My intention is to use this amp at a blues jam, where 15-watts may not be quite enough to punch through for solos, so a higher wattage rating, along with higher speaker sensitivity is my 'only hope' in this regard.

    Yes, I've considered using a higher-wattage amp, but I much prefer the 6G3 sound for this context.
     
  9. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Hey man, thanks for the recommendations.

    I tend to prefer having a higher wattage rating as I intend to use this amp cranked in a live setting, and riding the volume knob for rhythm tones.

    At home, I have a Weber Mass III, which would allow me to get the cranked tones at lower volumes. :twisted:
     
  10. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Nuthin' makes yer snooty Golds and Creams whimper and hide under the bed quite like a surprisingly affordable Eminence GB128.

    101+ db, 50w power handling. You'll never blow it with a brown Deluxe.
     
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  11. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Yeah. It accentuates the frequencies that make your little brown amp sound like a pissed off rock monster.

    :D :D :D
     
  12. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    No, people recommend doubling the amps rating because they believe it will 'save' the speaker when the amp hits peak vs RMS rating. Not realising the speakers rating is RMS too - it can handle higher momentary peaks.

    Over-speakering your amp is actually likely to reduce fidelity because the amp now has to push a stiffer cone, larger voicecoil with bigger gap and stiffer spider. The motor assembly is beefier. That's the magnet, cone, coil and spider.

    People got used to doing that because Marshall amps could produce 160 watts RMS and not 100, and Vox AC30s hit 36 which led to lots of popped Greenbacks and Blues. Yes some high wattage speakers like EVs or JBLs could belt it out and were handy if you needed that volume for extended periods.

    The Celestion recommendation is match the RMS speaker rating to the amp. Ditto Eminence and any other current maker. They're happy to let you buy bigger and more expensive speakers if you like.

    As regards sensitivity - Celestion Blues are 102db @ 1 watt@metre spl for 15 watts.Only Neo speakers with incredibly powerful small magnets are reliably higher sensitivity.

    I use a GA10 SC64 speaker rated 20 watts with my 18 watt Superchamp. It has no issue reliably handling the power including being overdriven. At 95db spl it's highly rated for a 10" speaker and I have no issue being heard with drums and bass.

    The 6G3 didn't come with a 50 watt speaker - probably 20-25 watts and originals are still around. That's the tone of the time.

    Eminence's new signature speakers are a great take on the originals with detail like paper voicecoil formers - combined with better glues and materials than the originals, their rating is conservative.

    I don't sell or profit from Eminence. Just good experience with their products. Modern Celestion or WGS or other brands can be just as good.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  13. Viejo

    Viejo Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I went with a Weber 12F150 25 watt version in mine . I love it
     
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  14. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    I don't see it mentioned much here, but the Eminence EJ1240 is good in a Deluxe.

    I'm not sure how it compares to the GA-SC59, but they're both pricey.
     
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  15. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    I’m not a speaker expert. Not a lot of experience with lots of speakers.

    The Maverick is an American (read: Fender) voiced amp, perfect for reproducing the sound of Fender circuits as intended. I will tell you that the speaker is SLIGHTLY (very) warmer/darker when the knob is on the minimum setting, and gets a little brighter as you crank it up. But it’s a very minor change. Less than with an attenuator.
     
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  16. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Wow, thanks for the very detailed explanation, I've learnt a lot just from this alone!

    I think this helps me understand wattage ratings a lot more, and fair enough I have been a little paranid about speaker rating vs RMS output wattage from the amp.

    This helps me reduce my requirement of speaker wattage, even if I do observe that lower wattage speakers do tend to have lower sensitivity, at least for the ones that might get me closer to the tone I have in mind.
     
  17. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Help me on this though. I notice in images of the GB128 that there is no dope on the speaker surrounds.

    I was under the impression that dope helped to retain speaker longevity, as well as reducing cone cry.

    Should I be concerned at the lack of dope on the GB128?
     
  18. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Speaker sensitivity is controlled by a lot of things. And the speaker response curve is more useful in determining how a speaker will work. Many 15" speakers have high SPL but fall on their face not much above 4khz. They sound dull or lacking sparkle. Not all, but many 12s 'sound better' for that reason.

    The reason many small wattage speakers are poor in response is they may be cheaply made for OEMs and constructed to a price. Or they have been designed for flat response in a limited frequency environment like a hifi or pa speaker with crossovers. So if they work 60-3000hz they achieve their mission.
     
  19. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    I pick up circa 1960 electronic organs every chance I get. They typically include two 12" alnico speakers each. They're typically un- doped. I don't lose any sleep over it.
     
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  20. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Afflicted

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    gb128 seems well balanced to me.
    Runs on bottom 2 strings are tight
    with no mushing out. When you get
    high up on the top 2 strings it's clear
    and bright but never harsh. Arpeggios ring out nicely.

    I've never heard any cone cry. I have run mine from quiet to cranked sounds great at all levels. Bet you would find it a good match for your 6g3.
     
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