Speaker Recommendation 65 PRRI

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by fasteddie42, May 22, 2020.

  1. fasteddie42

    fasteddie42 Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm having a tough time sifting through all the guitar speaker jargon and specs.

    I'm aware that this is yet another incredibly subjective topic, but I'm looking for a little guidance.

    I have a basic understanding of matching speaker loads to the amp and the different wiring combinations needed and for discussions sake lets not worry too much about the wiring/ohms/speaker requirements.

    Current rig is a 65 PRRI with a G10 Greenback.

    The goal is to make it physically and audibly bigger by adding an additional 10" speaker/cab

    Easy answer is buy another G10 greenback, which I am considering...

    but then there is the wide world of mixing speakers.

    Matching all the specs of two speakers (wattage/handling/etc.) is really over my head.

    American or British voiced/alnico or ceramic/yadda yadda my head is spinning.

    I typically play between 5-7 with a slapback. I very rarely use anything but guitar/aquapuss/prri.

    I'm down with both combo and cab running two 16ohm speakers OR a 2x10 extension cab running into the main jack...

    If I did go with a 2x10 extension speaker, it would allow me to use it with my fender greta and fender pro junior too (all three are 8ohm load amps)

    I play rockabilly, country, blues, americana, etc.

    LONG STORY SHORT:

    What 10" speaker would you pair with a G10 Greenback in a PRRI 65?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  2. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    "The goal is to make it physically and audibly bigger"
    Weber 10F150T or 10F150 50 watt, no dope/low dope, no doubt. With that you wont need another cab at all.
     
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  3. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    My favorite single 10" speaker for a Princeton Reverb is an Eminence Copperhead. It can do some audibly bigger and can fill things out, but I would not say that's the first thing that comes to mind with that speaker. For your goal of physically, audibly bigger, I think of an Eminence Ragin' Cajun and a JBL E110. I can't say how either of those would mix with a Greenback. I'm guessing they'd pretty well dominate it. So you really do end up having to think about how speakers mix, tone-wise, and their sound pressure levels relative to one another.
     
  4. fasteddie42

    fasteddie42 Tele-Afflicted

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    the main thing to consider when matching speakers is the decibel rating right?

    I've read it's best to keep both speakers within 3db rating?
     
  5. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's certainly one thing, and it's important if you want them to work well together. That's what I was referring to with "sound pressure level." A Celestion G10 Greenback is 95dB, so it would get crushed by a Ragin' Cajun, which is 100.5dB. Even if you just took out that Greenback and put in a much more efficient speaker, you'd really be getting somewhere, volume-wise. But that may not equate to what you're thinking of as "bigger." I don't know.
     
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  6. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    It depends.... Think of it this way, if you had a "balance pot" between them, you might like the mix more toward one than the other. Essentially Db rating is like that when they are combined. It might be good, It might be bad. I combined a 12 and 10 in a cab once. One speaker was loud and warm, the other bright, low Db and clean. It ended up being a great combo just by luck, but that made me start thinking about that "balance". The smaller bright speaker kinda acted like a mid range speaker in a stereo cab, filling in those frequencies in the mix.

    But the real question for you is: What do you want more of than the single G10?
    -Just more, same tone? Another G10
    -More low end? Something in the 40-50 watt range and bigger voice coil.
    -Less breakup? ditto^

    You're gonna need 16 ohm speakers to match up two at 8 ohms total load.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  7. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    You do know a greenie makes that a hot Princeton
    as opposed to amercian voiced.

    You could first try a higher rated 10..like BD10 supro at 90watts

    If going to cab, try a closed back, since your amp is open.

    imho
     
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  8. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Holic

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    Just a couple points..

    * I don't own a similar amp, so can't speak about the specifics of your situation
    * Keep researching -- look for, and compare the specs of each speaker you want to consider
    * A [new] speaker purchase is where you are 'out on a limb' -- very few sellers will accept a return once it has been installed, so it's important to do as much homework and checking around as possible before you buy/install it.

    With that said, here's a couple points to keep in mind:

    Efficiency (aka 'sensitivity' -- assume the terms are used interchangeably for present needs):
    It is the single best indicator of how RELATIVELY 'loud' a speaker is likely to be (setting aside issue of frequency response over the audible continuum, etc). This parameter is a 'test' summary value extracted under test conditions in a lab somewhere -- so, in short, it *can* be instructive and useful, but not all companies use the same methodology, etc -- so use it as a rough guide but don't stake too much emphasis on it alone.

    As someone mentioned above, 95db is considered moderate in terms of efficiency. Most guitar speakers usually fall into a range like 92db on the low end, and run all the way up to about 102-103db on the high end. In short, a higher db rating means it is probably going to be louder than a speaker with a lower db rating. A speaker with 6db better output will normally be perceived as being twice as loud. A 3db better rating should give you about 50% more perceived volume -- all other things being equal. So, stated another way, you could gain almost 2x the output by just swapping to a speaker that have a 101+db rating.

    ^ that, addresses the 'quantity' (how loud?) issue.
    Maybe you just need to swap the speaker out? (you wouldn't have to lug around a separate cabinet that way). 'Quality' is something almost completely different of course and where things get even more subjective and murky.

    I won't suggest a particular speaker, and I certainly won't suggest a speaker that I happen to like. I have built 4 different boxes that have different types of speakers: guitar speakers (1x12" [98db], [2]x6.5" [95db]), PA speakers (1x12" [96db], 1x8" [92db]), of different brands (Eminence, WGS, JBL, etc) - which suit my taste/style, but I am not like most people I suppose.. I can mix/match that way with lots of flexibility.

    Ultimately, your ear should be the last and final determining factor. The chicken-and-egg nature of speaker buying puts the purchaser in a nasty conundrum: you want to hear and check out the sound BEFORE you decide to buy, BUT.. once you've bought it, well, yes, you really have 'bought it' (and can rarely send it back).

    PS. Sorry for the long post, just trying to be helpful (based on my experience).

    For reference:
    www.eminence.com
    www.wgs.com
    www.celestion.com
    www.tedweber.com
    (etc).

    Update: Darn, sorry - forgot about Jensen.. 'my bad'.
    It is early, and only had 1 coffee.. more in progress.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  9. christophervolu

    christophervolu TDPRI Member

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    The jenson p10q sounds glorious in my Princeton. Here are a few examples playing the type of music you do with different pickups in each.





     
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  10. Ian T

    Ian T Tele-Afflicted

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    If you need more spaciousness and a little more volume, perhaps instead put the money you'll spend on a cab and speakers toward a second amp and a good ABY switcher. Multi-dimension galore once you start combining amps. This makes way more sense to me than adding a cab. If you gig like this you have a backup in case one of the amps fails.

    There are any number of amps that you could add to a PRRI to make it sound even better. Any 5 watter will compliment that tone, old Ampeg Gemini's are awesome and cheap. The possibilities are endless, and begin with combining the amps you already have.

    The speaker swapping thing is a rabbit hole and it gets expensive. Are you sure you want to open Pandora's box? Maybe just take that amp on its merit, I'm sure a PRRI with G10 sounds more than decent.

    I bought the Fulltone True-path ABY switcher and it was the best pedal purchase ever. It opened the door to the world of combining amps. There are others that do the same thing. Basically, you need to be able to reverse the ground and the phase to make sure that the amps play well together. The Fulltone has buffers that are switchable, too.
     
  11. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Poster Extraordinaire

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    If you are talking about running an additional speaker cabinet, why does it have to be a 10" now? Why not just try a good 12" ( with proper impedance) in an ext. cab?

    * but other good 10"s that are pretty efficient are the Eminence 1058, Ragin' Cajun, and and a nice cheaper one is the Jensen Mod 10-50W

    ( I personally like keeping things simple and portable just the combo amp, no cab- I'm old and weak!)
     
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  12. telepraise

    telepraise Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree with Schmee on the Weber, that speaker is designed for a replacement in your amp and has a big honkin ceramic magnet. Then you won't have to mess with a second cab at all. Other than that, listen to what everyone is saying about sensitivity, the difference between 95db and 100db is huge. I have a SE edition of that amp with a 12" speaker and upgraded to a Celestion Cream alnico, 100 db and 90 watts for gonzo headroom. The amp sounds as big as my Deluxe Reverb, HUGE difference. Beautiful breakup too.
     
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  13. fasteddie42

    fasteddie42 Tele-Afflicted

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    sorry, for some reason I hadn't gotten any notifications about my own thread... I'm going to try my best to rapid fire these.




    I gave it some thought.. I'm not really searching for anything different, just more of what I have.

    Do you mind expanding on what a "hot" Princeton is?

    I actually own an a/b/y, a pro junior, and fender greta too. I'm trying to avoid a rabbit hole.

    I have several amps that run at 8ohms, which makes my think an extension cab could be useful to have.
     
  14. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Hot = Brit Crunchy more R/R grindy

    Ok...if that is what you are trying to get at..
     
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  15. Minivan Megafun

    Minivan Megafun Tele-Holic

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    I'm all for the 10F150, but why 50 watts? They come in 25 watt as well and the Princeton is only a 15 watt amp.
     
  16. telepraise

    telepraise Tele-Afflicted

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    ^^ Headroom. When I ran a lower wattage/sensitivity speaker (Jensen P12Q), it broke up at a lower level on the volume dial. When I put in a higher wattage speaker, it didn't break up at all at the same number on the dial that the Jensen did. It was louder at that level and could be pushed up a couple more numbers before starting to breakup naturally (and was way loud then). Since I use a "transparent" overdrive pedal anyway, the higher clean overhead is a good asset.
     
  17. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    If you're gigging with the Princeton, get a speaker with higher sensitivity. Be aware that mixing speakers of differing sensitivity means the lower rated speaker will tend to be drowned out.

    Put the higher sensitivity speaker in the cab underneath the amp, with the quieter speaker in the combo on top. The difference in distance from the speaker to your ears should help balance then out.

    Adding a cab won't make it substantially louder, just fuller. The Princeton is 15 watts, and two 16 ohm speakers will each get 7.5 watts, half as much as the one speaker. More efficient speakers will be a bit louder and cleaner, with more perceived high end.

    IME, a lower sensitivity (94.4 dB) Jensen P12Q worked better as an amp used in a small 15' x 15' room, less ice picky treble, plus the ability to turn up more. With the variety of choices out ther, it's relatively easy to dial-in specific sounds and specific needs.

    YMMV.
     
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  18. Rick P

    Rick P TDPRI Member

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    For the Fender Princeton tone take a look at Eminence GA10-SC64.
     
  19. yojimbo

    yojimbo Tele-Meister

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    if you like that G10 sound, as it is, switching to, or adding, an american voiced speaker such as the GA10SC, jensen, eminence legend, etc, will not make you happy. you're in good company, here. amps like the PR and DR don't have a mid control, so to enhance mids, many players of note have used Celestions in these amps, not the least of which being Reggie Young. also, since you said "bigger", have you considered replacing the baffle in your PRRI to accomodate a 12" speaker? there's a ton of great, british voiced 12s out there that would all be a nice fit, including the G12 Greenback. a 12" PRRI is a helluvan amp, volume wise, and this would save you the burden of having to carry around a second cabinet.
     
  20. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    I second the Weber 10F150, 50 watts. I will say though, that the only way I could get the most out of my '65 PRRI when I had it, was to have that weber speaker in the combo, but also have an extension cabinet with an Eminence Texas Heat in it. Now that was a tower of power!
     
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