Speaker idea for 5F11 Tweed Vibrolux with early breakup

[timewaster1700]

i recently built a 5F11 Tweed Vibrolux. I put a Eminence Cannabis Rex in and in a lot of ways I like but I think it’s a bit darker than I’d like and probably the biggest thing that has me looking for other options is it’s bloody loud! I mainly play at home or mic’d at a church and would prefer this amp be lower volume. Are there any speakers I should look into that are less efficient, and have a nice early breakup so I can get to a smooth natural overdrive without shaking the house? Basically lower volume overdrive would be great and just lower volume overall. I like smooth compressed sounding overdrive if that helps. I was thinking maybe the Weber 10A125-O? I should add I play both a les Paul and Tele.

 

[Uncle Daddy]

Eminence 1028? The Jensen P10R might do the job too.

 

[cgharrison]

These are pretty unknown, but I absolutely love them: the VOR speakers from Midwest speaker. I got one in an amp long ago, and they’ve become my absolute favorite for 50s style amps. To my ear, they’re head and shoulders above Jensen, Weber, Eminence, etc when it comes to a p10r or p12r type speaker.

 

[charliehorse]

Not a traditional choice, but a 10” celestion greenback is 95 db sensitivity for way more innefficiency than the Cannabis. I have a couple that I have tried in my 5c4/5c5 type homebrew, and they sound good, but have lots of bass, where coupling caps might need changing, etc...

 

[milocj]

I'd stay away from the Weber 10A125 as the two that I have in my brown Super sound great but are pretty aggressive and loud. I think that when I first tried one in my Princeton Reverb it was louder than the 10F150 that I had in there at the time. Great speaker, I just don't think it will do what you want it to do.

I think the 10A100 would be closer to the original speaker, though I haven't tried one of those before.

 

[schmee]

I'm confused... the Crex is 12" and you mention getting a 10" weber....? Which size?

 

[timewaster1700]

Thanks for the input everyone. I have a 12” greenback in my AC15 I should hook up and try. The 10A100 is hard to find information on but may be a good one to try. I’ll have to look up the others.

It is a 10” speaker. They make a 10” cannabis Rex it’s just a little harder to find. Bought mine from Midwest speakers

 

[dan40]

I have also wanted to try the VOR speakers. They are very affordable for alnico, have a very low sensitivity rating of 93db and everyone who has tried them has spoke highly of them...(link removed) Unfortunately there are not many reviews or sound samples to listen to.

Another highly regarded speaker for these circuits is the WGS Veteran 10. It also has a low sensitivity rating and the cost can't be beat. Many great reviews for this one out there...https://wgsusa.com/vet10

 

[thegeezer]

Based on your post, you need a speaker with a really low SPL. The VOR may do it. I’ve used a 12a100T in my ‘54 Deluxe and it’s about the same efficiency as an original 50s Jensen.


By the way, the T indicates a ribbed cone, which you likely want. No suffix indicates a smooth cone unless their numbering system has changed.

Stay in the low 90s SPL-wise.

 

[schmee]

Traditional Fender speakers ought to give you low SPL. Maybe too low though! I'd be tempted to try a bigger magnet Oxford, Utah or CTS ceramic. Utah's are a bit rare in 10" though. There's a ton of CTS out there though.

 

[timewaster1700]

Man there are too many good looking options. I may just have to decide on one, buy and try, then keep swapping. Could get kind of expensive and is a pain selling them, but all the speakers you all mentioned sound like they might fit the bill.

 

[BobbyZ]

Wish Eminence made a 10" Maverick.

 

[timewaster1700]

I wonder if I need to do both a combination of switch the speaker and add a switch to disconnect the negative feedback. Basically do robrob's 3 way negative feedback mod for the 5E3 but for the 5F11. As I look at the differences between the Deluxe and the Vibrolux, other than the obvious Tremolo vs two input channels, I see two main differences: negative feedback versus the cathode bypass cap on the 5E3 for max gain in the pre-amp section and fixed bias vs cathode bias. I don't think I get much pre-amp distortion in my 5F11 and my guess is that's due primarily to the negative feedback. I bet if I made that switchable off that would help me get more pre-amp dirt and therefore earlier breakup. Coupled with a speaker like the above you all recommended, maybe I could get into the territory I want at low volume.

 

[timewaster1700]

Well talking with CJ at Weber speakers, he recommends the 10A125 over the 10A100T and use an attenuator. Anyone had any comparison with the 10A125 vs 10A100 or for that matter a Jensen P10Q vs Jensen P10R which the two speakers are supposed to be replacements for? The original 5F11 Vibrolux has a P10R in it so I'm thinking maybe the 10A100 would be better. Problem is even just asking CJ at Weber what he recommends I can tell his personal preference and bias is involved ya know? He doesn't seem to like the O version of the 10A125 and describes the cleans as lacking detail with that speaker.

Also anyone used the Weber Minimass Attenuator. Looks pricey and a bit heavy but nice.

 

[timewaster1700]

Well I ordered a Weber 10A125 30W to try out. Also ordered a Weber Mini Mass Attenuator. Going to try adding the mod to switch negative feedback out of my amp which should hopefully let me get some preamp distortion. Combined with power tube distortion cranked and the attenuator to bring it to a reasonable level I actually think I might be able to get the tone I'm looking for without really needing any speaker breakup. I'll try to post results after I've given it a try

 

[caspersvapors]

FAT JIMMY C1025!!!

Just read the product description on the site, the inception was based on a need for a great speaker for a tweed vibrolux:

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/products/fat-jimmy-speakers-1

I just put one in my Princeton reverb and the breakup of that speaker is absolutely unreal

 

[timewaster1700]

FAT JIMMY C1025!!!

Just read the product description on the site, the inception was based on a need for a great speaker for a tweed vibrolux:

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/products/fat-jimmy-speakers-1

I just put one in my Princeton reverb and the breakup of that speaker is absolutely unreal

Dang sounds like an awesome speaker and so cheap. I already order the Weber 10A125, but I may have to try ordering one of these too. $50 is cheap. Sounds like its basically a tweaked WGS Veteran.

 

[pedro58]

You might also try tubes that a rated to break up or compress earlier. They are often labeled or described as "soft" in the descriptions. I know I've seen these for 6L6 types. You might investigate and see if there are similar ratings for 6V6. I just purchased some 5881 Tung Sol's and had a choice of soft/medium/hard. I selected soft and they do have a little less headroom than the tubes I used before.

 

[caspersvapors]

Dang sounds like an awesome speaker and so cheap. I already order the Weber 10A125, but I may have to try ordering one of these too. $50 is cheap. Sounds like its basically a tweaked WGS Veteran.

Just get it, its so cheap. Worth a shot. Ive had the Veteran as well as a slew of so many other 10s, I like this one better. I just bought 2 more yesterday for my SF Vibrolux. I literally laughed out loud to myself when I cranked my Princeton to 10 with this speaker

 

[timewaster1700]

So I purchased the Weber 10A125 30W, light dope and a Weber Mini Mass Attenuator. Wow! Starting with the speaker. Its MUCH better for this amp than the Cannabis Rex even without a break in. It has so much more high end which I thought I didn't want, but it just is more usable with a balanced sound. I can keep my tone at 6 or 7 instead of 10 or 11 with the Crex. I also think comparatively the Crex almost sounds like you're in a cave or something when I tried using my Super Signa Drive pedal. This speaker feels more open and alive with my pedals.

With the Mini mass, wow can I have a lot of fun. I added a 3 way negative feedback switch from @robrob 's website which in the case of the Vibrolux lets me switch the NFL out of the amp and get a lot more dirt. Combined with the attenuator, this is a lot of fun and sounds great with the new speaker. The weber doesn't feel as mid focused as my greenback in my AC15 which I don't necessarily think is good or bad. I like both sounds. They're different. I think I would like to build another Tweed at some point and go the Celestion route to get a different flare.

Overall very happy so far with the Weber. Going to keep breaking it in. I've only been using it at pretty low volumes so far so I haven't seen how it handles higher volumes. Definitely feels like a better fit or this amp. I can see how the Crex would be good mixed with other speakers in like a 4x10 cab but on its own its too dark for me.