Lotek
Tele-Meister
I put a Jupiter 8SC in my VCXD, very happy with it.
Speaker for Super Champ XD ?
- Thread starter cbnutt
- Start date
Willie Johnson
Friend of Leo's
39martind18
Friend of Leo's
It is in the 96-97 dB range, if memory serves. The E110 JBLs I think are up around 102-103.
photondev
Tele-Afflicted
I bought the SCXD when they first came out, and I still have it. I put a Ragin' Cajun and I really like it. When these amps came out, that was one of the most popular replacement speakers.
mad dog
Friend of Leo's
I have the X2, not the XD. I tried a couple speakers in there. The Copperhead, an Emi 105. The sound as a combo was not quite enough. A little too quiet. Different story running the amp out to an external speaker cab. Mine is a lightweight pine 2x10 by Larry Rogers. I ordered a pair of Fat Jimmy speakers for it, one C1020 and one C1050. Such a great sound with that setup. Were I to try it again as a combo, I'd get another C1050 - the heavier, more powerful choice - and see if it has magic in that application too.
TheCheapGuitarist
Tele-Afflicted
I almost bought one of these amps when they first came out, because I tried one in a store and was blown-away. I never bought it, but I did a lot of research at the time and the Ragin' Cajun was the speaker lots of guys put in these.
DFB1
Tele-Holic
I loved that speaker in my SCXD.
Got Twang
TDPRI Member
I have a SuperChamp X2. I replaced the stock speaker with an Eminence Rajin' Cajun after seeing many recommendations. Couldn't be happier.
mojo filters
TDPRI Member
I'm considering buying a Super Champ XD (or X2) if I see one at a fair price, and it seems like upgrading the speaker is a popular mod, from what I've been reading. Hence I'd be interested in hearing about what improvements all the different options mentioned in this thread have to offer?
I've not yet actually played through a Super Champ yet myself. However I suspect I'll find the lack of deep bass to be the least satisfactory aspect of the sound.
I'm used to playing guitar through a large solid state bass combo with a 15" speaker, and recently when I've tried brand new compact valve amps - I simply couldn't find anything with enough bass response to justify spending the £500-1000+ price tags.
Hence I've decided to buy a Super Champ, as long as the price is right, because at least it's reasonably compact, plus it has valves and the Fender silver face aesthetic that I really like. However if anyone has other suggestions they think might suit my needs, I'd be grateful for any and all recommendations!
Instead of potentially changing the speaker, I'd also consider using it with a chunky old external 12" cabinet I've got stored away somewhere. Hence I'd potentially be looking for information about and suggestions for both 10" and 12" drivers.
I'm very familiar with Hoffmann's Iron Law (out of 1. low frequency extension 2. size/compactness 3. volume/sensitivity - you can only pick two options) and I suspect I'd get more bang for my buck going the 12" external route, especially as I know I can get plenty of sub 100Hz response from a relatively average professional grade cast chassis PA driver, when using that cab.
I expect I'll be drawn to speakers like the EVM 12L with PA driver characteristics, but then I really don't know the guitar speaker driver market at all. Thus there could be several suitable guitar-oriented options out there, which would also probably be either cheaper or at least easier to find second hand.
I thought it was worth asking about the interesting experiences from folks who've already contributed to this thread, before actually starting a new thread myself.
When I talk about "good bass response" etc I'm not literally looking for extreme subwoofer type frequencies, more like those from a Fender Twin or Super Reverb that's turned up properly loud and providing a lot of "thump" if that makes sense?
I've not yet actually played through a Super Champ yet myself. However I suspect I'll find the lack of deep bass to be the least satisfactory aspect of the sound.
I'm used to playing guitar through a large solid state bass combo with a 15" speaker, and recently when I've tried brand new compact valve amps - I simply couldn't find anything with enough bass response to justify spending the £500-1000+ price tags.
Hence I've decided to buy a Super Champ, as long as the price is right, because at least it's reasonably compact, plus it has valves and the Fender silver face aesthetic that I really like. However if anyone has other suggestions they think might suit my needs, I'd be grateful for any and all recommendations!
Instead of potentially changing the speaker, I'd also consider using it with a chunky old external 12" cabinet I've got stored away somewhere. Hence I'd potentially be looking for information about and suggestions for both 10" and 12" drivers.
I'm very familiar with Hoffmann's Iron Law (out of 1. low frequency extension 2. size/compactness 3. volume/sensitivity - you can only pick two options) and I suspect I'd get more bang for my buck going the 12" external route, especially as I know I can get plenty of sub 100Hz response from a relatively average professional grade cast chassis PA driver, when using that cab.
I expect I'll be drawn to speakers like the EVM 12L with PA driver characteristics, but then I really don't know the guitar speaker driver market at all. Thus there could be several suitable guitar-oriented options out there, which would also probably be either cheaper or at least easier to find second hand.
I thought it was worth asking about the interesting experiences from folks who've already contributed to this thread, before actually starting a new thread myself.
When I talk about "good bass response" etc I'm not literally looking for extreme subwoofer type frequencies, more like those from a Fender Twin or Super Reverb that's turned up properly loud and providing a lot of "thump" if that makes sense?
NoTeleBob
Friend of Leo's
You might try an Eminence Wizard. It was their ceramic version of Celestion Blue Alnico. But it handles 75 watts and has more oomph. Also, it's 102db. They had a 50w Alnico, the Red Fang, but it out of production and hard to find.
I wouldn't use a PA speaker with a guitar unless you have a modeler with cab modeling or similar. A guitar speaker drops off at 5-6k. You don't want harmonios over that.
mojo filters
TDPRI Member
Thanks for the advice about the Eminence speaker, though I don't really know anything about the Celestion Blue either, apart from I think it's popular with Vox AC users.
102dB sensitivity is extremely impressive, but are there other specific qualities which make that a good choice?
When I say PA speaker I'm simply referring to the typical application of the individual driver, not a multi-way box with full range capabilities, crossover circuit, bi/tri-amp connectivity etc.
The 10" JBL with silver dust cap referenced as a replacement earlier in this thread, is from a family of drivers commonly used in PA systems, or at least it was back when it was a relatively new product.
Similarly the Electro-voice M series of drivers seem particularly popular with Mesa Boogie, to the point where I believe Mesa rebadges them with their Black Shadow speaker branding. The EVs are easy to spot, they have much larger voice coils and thicker cast chassis basket construction, compared with other Black Shadow speakers.
I'm running my X2 head through a Mesa Boogie Thiele closed back 1x12" cab. 90 Watt Celestion. I have the bass on 2. It's got a ton of bass.
PhredE
Friend of Leo's
PA type drivers can work pretty well, especially in the case where you're after 'loud and clean' (my two most favorite drivers now both fall into the category of PA woofer/full range drivers). My tendency lately is for loud and clean -- in full disclosure.
As NoTeleBob says above, one of the key differences is that extended high end response up above about 5000hz-5500hz. Some players can deal with that ok and can find creative ways of downplaying it (by amp settings, EQ, PUs, etc). Having an amp (or EQ, or modeler, etc) providing active EQ provides the ability to 'add' and makes compensating for deficiencies much easier IMO.
I have one of these:
Home
Dayton Audio PA310-8 12" Pro Woofer 8 OhmDayton Audio PA Series Pro Woofers are a great upgrade for musical instrument or sound reinforcement cabinets, and also excel in custom-built speaker systems. High power handling, smooth response, low distortion, deep punchy bass, and rugged reliability...
www.parts-express.com
It provides a flat response (great with modeler, EQ unit, etc) and is bullet proof (very high power rating @ 450WRMS), moderate efficiency (96db) and has a response of 45-4000hz. It has LOTS of low-end -- especially in a sealed+ported box. Lately, I've been using it in an partial open back smaller cab and like it as-is. I tweak EQ settings as needed however.
There are other similar type drivers worth a look. A few that get used by guitarists fairly frequently are the Eminence Delta12A, Delta Pro 12A, etc. If you're willing to look at more strict 'PA' brands, PRV (Brazil) and Faital (Italy) make excellent PA woofers/full-range units. Some excellent ones can be had for prices comparable to what a decent guitar type speaker will cost you.
Good luck!
mojo filters
TDPRI Member
That's really good and very helpful to know, thank you!
The Celestion C90 seems to be custom built for Mesa Boogie, and looking at the specs they provide is not a particularly inherently bassy driver.
The Thiele cabinet is quite different in design from more common types of guitar cab. Ported bass reflex is very efficient in terms of output, combining the frequencies from the front of the driver with porting tuned to extract bass in line with the resonant frequency (fs in Thiele-Small numbers, 85Hz in this case) of the driver - all from a pretty compact box.
It does require a more sophisticated design than most guitar cabs, and won't work as well with a mismatched driver, the latter being a common trade-off in loudspeaker cabinet design.
The Super Champ heads don't seem as common as the combos, and I've seen a few recently go for more than the average price of the combo. For some reason Fender heads never seem as common as combo amps, even though models like the Bandmaster seem quite popular with touring professionals.
mojo filters
TDPRI Member
Thank you very much, it's great to get so much helpful information now, as I'm already getting a good idea of some decent options to consider.PA type drivers can work pretty well, especially in the case where you're after 'loud and clean' (my two most favorite drivers now both fall into the category of PA woofer/full range drivers). My tendency lately is for loud and clean -- in full disclosure.
As NoTeleBob says above, one of the key differences is that extended high end response up above about 5000hz-5500hz. Some players can deal with that ok and can find creative ways of downplaying it (by amp settings, EQ, PUs, etc). Having an amp (or EQ, or modeler, etc) providing active EQ provides the ability to 'add' and makes compensating for deficiencies much easier IMO.
I have one of these:
Home
Dayton Audio PA310-8 12" Pro Woofer 8 OhmDayton Audio PA Series Pro Woofers are a great upgrade for musical instrument or sound reinforcement cabinets, and also excel in custom-built speaker systems. High power handling, smooth response, low distortion, deep punchy bass, and rugged reliability...www.parts-express.com
It provides a flat response (great with modeler, EQ unit, etc) and is bullet proof (very high power rating @ 450WRMS), moderate efficiency (96db) and has a response of 45-4000hz. It has LOTS of low-end -- especially in a sealed+ported box. Lately, I've been using it in an partial open back smaller cab and like it as-is. I tweak EQ settings as needed however.
There are other similar type drivers worth a look. A few that get used by guitarists fairly frequently are the Eminence Delta12A, Delta Pro 12A, etc. If you're willing to look at more strict 'PA' brands, PRV (Brazil) and Faital (Italy) make excellent PA woofers/full-range units. Some excellent ones can be had for prices comparable to what a decent guitar type speaker will cost you.
Good luck!
Of course I need to buy the amp first. Hopefully the auction I'm currently following doesn't end up spiralling upwards outside what I'm willing to spend. Frustratingly I've missed the ends of a couple recently, both of which ended on prices I'd have been happy to beat!
PhredE
Friend of Leo's
Similarly..
If you have basic tools+woodworking skills, it's pretty easy to build your own to your own specs (that is what I have done and even as a novice, the boxes w/drivers I am pretty happy with).
There are lots of good resources to design and help build a great Theile type cabinet out there online.
One final point, if you do embark on a PA drivers, please bear in mind that nearly all are designed to handle much greater power than most guitar speakers. The bottom line with that is: it takes more time and effort to break in a high-powered speaker (you'll need to have *something* to feed it power and hopefully have and living / rehearsal space where it can be done without invoking a call to the local police!)
If you have basic tools+woodworking skills, it's pretty easy to build your own to your own specs (that is what I have done and even as a novice, the boxes w/drivers I am pretty happy with).
There are lots of good resources to design and help build a great Theile type cabinet out there online.
One final point, if you do embark on a PA drivers, please bear in mind that nearly all are designed to handle much greater power than most guitar speakers. The bottom line with that is: it takes more time and effort to break in a high-powered speaker (you'll need to have *something* to feed it power and hopefully have and living / rehearsal space where it can be done without invoking a call to the local police!)
Strat Jacket
Tele-Holic
@Beachbum Love that idea for my X2! What model is the extension cab, and does it run in tandem with the stock speaker?
Joe-Bob
Doctor of Teleocity
When I had a Super Champ XD, I put in a Celestion G-10 Vintage and it sounded really good.
SpeyFly
Tele-Holic
I found the stock speaker was the weakest part of the SCXD. Like many others have stated, I put a Ragin Cajun in mine and never looked back. Whether it's a Celestion, Eminence or other quality speaker, the upgrade will be worth the investment.
BTW, I usually plug into a 1X12 cab and the speaker of choice is the Scumnico 8/65.
BTW, I usually plug into a 1X12 cab and the speaker of choice is the Scumnico 8/65.
The cab that I used for that project was a Kustom Defender 1X12 because it was a decent cab for reasonable bucks and the dimensions where just about perfect for stacking. Unfortunately the SCXD isn't wired to run both speakers at the same time. Eventually I sold the SCXD but kept the cab that I now use with my Hotone mini amp. More recently I came across this SCX2 on Craigs List in a custom made 1X12 cab and snatched it up for $350. If I were doing it myself today rather than spend $200 for a separate cab I'd go another $100 or so and get one of the companies on the net that make these cabs. Check Mojo Tone and others.
Kustom Defender 30W 1x12 Guitar Speaker Cabinet
Shop for the Kustom Defender 30W 1x12 Guitar Speaker Cabinet and receive free shipping on your order and the guaranteed lowest price.
www.guitarcenter.com
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