Speaker for Musicmaster Bass?

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Whatizitman, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Older 6A5Q version. The original CTS(?) is kaput. It's very not BF/SF sounding, IMO. I had pretty good luck with a cheap MOD 12-35 in the multivox in my avatar. The MMB sounds similar, with less low end due to cab design, methinks. I tried it with a C12N, and it was good, but way too loud. And still didn't help much with low end, but the amp is what it is. The MOD 12-35 is way less efficient, and I would prefer something like that. I don't see myself gigging much with this amp, if at all.

    Before I plunge for the MOD, gimme some suggestions. Nothing over, say, $125 w/discounts. But I would prefer to keep under $100.

    And, please, for the sake of all that is holy, remember to party on. :cool:
     
  2. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    So, if I hear you right you want more low end due to shallow cab design? The GA SC64 has good low end, not as clean and bright as a RI C12N. But I'm not sure how much less loud it would be... a bit less though IME.

    On the cheap:
    -If you like the Jensen Mod speakers, get a Mod 12-50 or Mod 12-70. The 12-50 is much warmer than the Mod 12-35. But I can't say it's huge on the low end... just not bright.
    -There is a large magnet Eminence that was used in the 80-90's Twins. It has big bottom end and not bright top end. Not super loud. These usually go inexpensive. Good sounding speakers and usually fairly cheap. I have one here but the problem with heavy ish speakers is shipping now days. It's gotten to be like $25 to ship one very far. So a $45 speaker ends up being $70
    [​IMG]
    -The Jensen C12K is a clean speaker with big bottom end and not super loud. That's an option. I have one of those available also with the dust cap replaced with an aluminum one. Almost zero use.

    -You can also find Fender labeled CTS or Pyle ceramics on Ebay which may fit the bill for you. I have one here but it's 16 ohm. Subdued top end big bottom end. Like this:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  3. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Hmmm. What about C12R? Might help tame the mids a little. I liked the old C12R in the multivox, apart from the low end buzz when cranked (needed recone, I think). Not sure how close the reissue would be to an original. Internet has very mixed opinions on that. The only reason I replaced it with a MOD was due to price. Yeah, I'm that cheap. The MOD wasn't quite as good, but it certainly wasn't bad, either. C12R might be a little bright on the topend, though.

    Decisions, decisions...
     
  4. Patton

    Patton TDPRI Member Gold Supporter

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    I have a Weber Sig12 in one of my MM's. A definite improvement over the stock CTS and under a $100.
     
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  5. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Need another 12ax7. So MF it is. Following my buy under one roof rule, I’m going with the MOD-35.

    Just couldn’t justify paying 2-3x much, but not getting 2-3 times better toanz.
     
  6. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Why not try the Mod 12-50? Not a lot to risk really.
    Get a Mullard RI 12AX7 , worth the extra $.
     
  7. zook

    zook Friend of Leo's

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    An Eminence 1258 would suit the amp just fine.
     
  8. MuddyWolf

    MuddyWolf Tele-Meister

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    EMI GB128. Great for fenders.
     
  9. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'd check out the Weber Sig 12 either alnico or ceramic. Gets good reviews for various older low wattage amps. Seriously inexpensive.

    The SC64 is very efficient if volume is a requirement.
     
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  10. Telecastoff1

    Telecastoff1 Tele-Holic

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    I just had two Musicmaster Bass amps given to me several weeks ago. One is a '77 and the other is a '78. The '77 has a real solid wood cab and the '78 cab is MDF. While the speakers in both amps worked, I felt they could each improve with a speaker change, so I used what I had "laying around". A Texas Heat went into the '78 and a Celestion GT12-100 went into the '77. Both speakers improved the overall sound quality of these amps with much improved bass performance and overall dynamics. However, these amps are 6V6 types...not sure how these would differ from your 6A5Q version.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  11. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    The internet told me to snip out the input cap, so that could be part of its 'brightness'. I need to try it with the cap back in to compare. Either way, the MMBs have a very shallow cab with no back. Mine is solid wood, too. Very light weight, so maybe pine(?). And they are voiced very different than other SF amps. They are what they are.

    EDIT: a quick look at the schem indicates the input cap is part of an HPF. Maybe it would be even more shrill with it(?). I seriously can't imagine that.

    The C12N is not an overly midrangey speaker, so I was a little surprised on what little overall change it did for the tone. Just made it louder more than anything else. The MODs are more neutral on the mids, with an eentsy bit of low end hump compared to vintage speakers. Very inefficient, too. Supposed to ship today, so hopefully I'll have some time tonight to try it out and report back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  12. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's

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    With the Weber Sigs, pay attention to the descriptions of tone and breakup. You have 5 choices.
     
  13. jonrpick

    jonrpick Friend of Leo's

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    Since you mentioned that it's not very BF/SF sounding, I'll assume that's what you are shooting for.

    The MMB will never sound like a BF/SF amp with the stock tone control. I replaced mine with a bass/treble only TMB (like a BF) on a stacked pot.

    Night and day.
     
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  14. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    Not trying for SF/BF. But it is still surprisingly mid and trebly, despite that. My DSL20 combo has more on the bottom than the MMB does. It seems like some frequencies are being cut off a little high for even a smallish 1x12. I don't plan on modding any more than I have. I'd prefer to keep it as stock as I can. It's a very early first run, so kind of a rare bird. If it ultimately doesn't check off all my toanz boxes, no biggie. It has been a very fun project to get working.
     
  15. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    The reason for that is twofold: it's got a relatively dinky powertransformer shared with champs and Broncos and the phase inverter is a transformer too, so no gain like as conventional split tail Fender or the Marshall. Plus the output transformer is also dinky. Your Marshall parts are probably double the physical size.

    So the preamp is stripped down, it's got a simple preamp and dinky output - plus the stock speaker was obviously selected with economy in mind.

    The 6AQ5 tubes have a characteristic chiminess a little different to 6V6 due IMO to the small plate size. They have their own vibe, if not lots of bass.

    What it does do, is with the right speaker a really nice Tweedy-flavoured sweetness to its natural overdrive that is very responsive to tube selection. It's a good amp for tube rolling and one of the few home-friendly 112 combos at getting good tone at moderate volumes. Plus - they look great in the loungeroom or den.
     
  16. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    If low efficiency is something you want maybe have a look at the Eminece Maverick. It's adjustable from like 91db to 99 db.
    But don't ask me for a written discrimination of the tone. I can't do that anymore than I can describe the color yellow to someone that can't see. :)
     
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  17. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    The MOD-35 sounds great on the MMB! Exactly what I was hoping for.

    I’ve got a little vibration and buzz when cranked, though. Probably a cold solder I’m gonna need to track down. And so it goes...
     
  18. LightningPhil

    LightningPhil Tele-Meister

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    Not in budget, but the Volt RV314V is very cool looking.
     
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