Speaker for 80's Super Champ.

[ScottJPatrick]

I currently have a legend 1058 installed in my super champ, but everyone seems to favour the Ragin Cajun (except Wally who prefers the alnico) Is there that much of a difference between the legend and the cajun that I would notice apart from my wallet feeling lighter? Thought about the lil' buddy too if anyone has an opinion on that. Just found some NOS RCA 6C10's so will be investing in a couple of them for the future.

 

[DaveKS]

What do 6c10 have to do with that amp? Confused???? It uses 12ax7 and 6v6.


Edit: nevermind, I see now, I never new they were anything but 12ax7 and 6v6.

"In order to increase gain and cut costs, the Super Champ utilized 1x 12AX7 for the first and second stage preamp, a 1x 12AT7 for spring reverb driver tube, while a triple-triode 6C10 compactron is used for three functions; one as a third stage preamp for even more gain, one as the phase inverter (instead of two for most class-AB circuits), and one as recovery for the spring reverb. When the volume knob is pulled, some signal from the 12AT7 reverb driver is re-routed, resulting in higher gain."

 

[Wally]

Scott, I just came into the only speaker I would run in my SC's except for the ALK....I found some EV Force 10's, which are the EVI that was the upgrade speaker for the Super Champs...and were the only speaker they used in the 100 oak cab'd SC's.
I am sure others have their favorites, too...those are mine.
I recently had one of the 'Derek Trucks' Pyle MH1020's in a Super Champ. That speaker works beautifully in the clean mode....no mid boost, no gain boost. However, when I pulled the mid boost, the speaker sort of 'disappeared'....I have never experienced anything like it before. Pulling the Lead boost made the speaker 'disappear' even moreso. Back in the Clean mode....boom! everything you would want in a speaker. (Fwiw, all of the volume/gain controls on my Super Champs are on 10 at all times. Yes.....beautiful cleans at 10, beatuiful mid crunch, and screamin' lead gain...all at the same volume if you use a 12AU7 in the reverb driver! (;^) )
The Pyle was mystifying....I am going to look into this speaker further....because the problem was not in the amp. I do know that it would be a great 10" speaker for a Princeton Reverb or a SR....but ime it doesn't want to see what the Super Champ does when gain is pushed.

 

[ScottJPatrick]

Thanks Wally, will look out for an EV but don't think my chances are too high of ever finding one. Tolex is good on the amp and I promise I will be gentle when I clean the metalwork! Any other essential upgrades I can do in the meantime?

 

[Wally]

ONE speaker I would like to hear in a SC is the Eminence Little Buddy...hemp cone. Other than that.....don't look for a footswitch unless you are ready to do some extensive mods so that it will actually yield good results. Turn all volumes and gains to 10...trebles at 4-5, Bass no more than 3. With a decent speaker, this will yield good sounds...run it from your guitar. IF I want less volume, I get a smaller amp....and I turn that one up, too! LOL.....I believe in the output section going to work...or any amp gets to sounding thinner than it can...to my ear, anyway.
IF you want to get into modding the Super Champ, our brother Bendyha has gone through and done some fine analysis of the circuit. He has modded to make the footswitch function properly. He has also gone into other parts of the circuit. I am going to keep his mods and thoughts on the SC on the backburner until such time as I pull one of mine apart for serious work. Until then, they serve me well as they are.
You can do a search and find his posts.

 

[ScottJPatrick]

I have seen that thread, not really looking to 'mod' as such, just upgrades that have more to do with maintenance and safety than anything else. The lil' buddy was on my list too, there is one guy I have seen on here that has one in his. Found an ev 10 but at $175 for a partially working model I'll pass. (link removed)

 

[Johnny Cache]

Funny thing I was planning on swapping out the original Blue Label speaker (Jensen, Utah, or I don't know for sure WTFIS) on my Super Champ but later changed my mind after hearing another Super Champ with a Little Buddy. Really think mine sounded better, used a Tele, Jazzmaster and Guild X170 to compare them. I think keeping it original is what's right for me. BTW I have the foot switch for mine (after market copy) works okay, I seldom use it, because I don't use the lead channel much. However what I found is if I use it without pulling the volume knob out I get a kind of Fat Switch effect which helps boost the mid range a little. These amps seem to be a bit bright IMHO but seems like HB's mellow it out for jazz just about right.

 

[paratus]

I think that a more flat response speaker like an EV are a good choice for Rivera era Fenders with the mid boost, if you ever use that feature.

 

[drmcclainphd]

I also favor flatter, more neutral speakers, so I know I'm going to get out only what I put in. I recently added EV Force to my short list.

Besides that, I do think it worth an email to TA Weber's to find out what they make for Super Champ replacements.

 

[Wally]

Johnny, if you like that OEM speaker in your SC, I am going to guess that it is the Pyle....'1098' manufacturer's code. IT has a full range response whereas the OEM Eminence is a bright, harsh speaker. I find the Pyle is a bit inarticulate when one really puts an ear to it, though. YMMV.
Scott.....maintenace, etc. clean and service..retension pots, tighten nuts, etc. Install a bias trim pot. I have found some 'hot' biasing in Super Champ's. The last one was running k100% of max plate dissipation!

 

[JohnS]

Thanks Wally, will look out for an EV but don't think my chances are too high of ever finding one. Tolex is good on the amp and I promise I will be gentle when I clean the metalwork! Any other essential upgrades I can do in the meantime?

I think there is a Force 10 in the TDPRI Classifieds right now.

 

[Dismalhead]

Thanks Wally, will look out for an EV but don't think my chances are too high of ever finding one. Tolex is good on the amp and I promise I will be gentle when I clean the metalwork! Any other essential upgrades I can do in the meantime?

The original EVs that were optional in the Super Champs pop up occasionally on E-Bay and Reverb, but prepare to outlay some serious cash.

I remember when I bought my SC in '84 I tried one with an EV; it really did sound amazing. I saved the cash and got the one with the Fender Blue though.

 

[Wally]

dismalhead, there were two OEM speakers that Fender used in the SC's that had the blue label....an Eminence that is thin and harsh and a Pyle that has good, full range freq response but is a little bit inarticulate.
Emi code.... 67xxyy
Pyle code...1098xxyy

 

[Johnny Cache]

Johnny, if you like that OEM speaker in your SC, I am going to guess that it is the Pyle....'1098' manufacturer's code. IT has a full range response whereas the OEM Eminence is a bright, harsh speaker. I find the Pyle is a bit inarticulate when one really puts an ear to it, though. YMMV.
Scott.....maintenace, etc. clean and service..retension pots, tighten nuts, etc. Install a bias trim pot. I have found some 'hot' biasing in Super Champ's. The last one was running k100% of max plate dissipation!

What I forgot to mention is for Jazz I also use a cheap EQ pedal for some stuff, Joe Pass/Herb Ellis/Les Paul. Nice thing about an EQ pedal over a speaker swap is you can fine tune the tone for just about anything you want, sometimes I use it as a clean boost for country pickin' try that on a Jazz guitar!

Your right it get's pretty bright with a Tele or Strat, I'll check the speaker code, thanks!

 

[Dismalhead]

dismalhead, there were two OEM speakers that Fender used in the SC's that had the blue label....an Eminence that is thin and harsh and a Pyle that has good, full range freq response but is a little bit inarticulate.
Emi code.... 67xxyy
Pyle code...1098xxyy

Don't own it anymore, so no idea which one I had. I always liked the tone though.

 

[Johnny Cache]

Wally it's an Eminence 67-8349. I'm okay with that. But, if I ever swap out the speaker the Lil' Buddy is my first choice.

 

[Wally]

Johnny, that is the 'thin' sounding Eminence OEM speaker....67 = Eminence....49th week of 1983. Your serial number probably reads F4xxxxxx, right? 1984 amp.

 

[Hoodster]

Eminence Legend 1058.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/eminence-legend-1058-10-in-guitar-speaker

 

[alvis]

When I get back to the land of burgers ,Im gonna try a WGS ET-10 in mine
I'll let y'all know what I find