Speaker change in TMDR to C12Q?

[birv2]

Has anyone done this? Is it worth it, ie: is the difference in sound so great that it's worth spending $100 on the new speaker?

I'm not dissatisfied with the current speaker, but something a bit "bluesier" intrigues me.

 

[Marc Morfei]

With all the extensive discussion about the TMs, I have heard very little mention of speaker swaps. I take that to mean people are pretty satisfied with the Neo. I'm satisfied with mine. Still, speaker swaps are always interesting. Would be curious to hear the results.

 

[InstantCoffeeBlue]

I haven't spent a ton of time with these, but being a modeling amp, the breakup is coming strictly from the modeling, so I don't know if replacing the speaker with one that will introduce speaker breakup is what the engineers intended, but sure, why not? Give it a try and let us know how it works out.

One suggestion: skip the Jensen and get a WGS G12Q instead.

 

[Tony65x55]

Has anyone done this? Is it worth it, ie: is the difference in sound so great that it's worth spending $100 on the new speaker?

I'm not dissatisfied with the current speaker, but something a bit "bluesier" intrigues me.

I did exactly this. I find the N12K sounds wooden and lifeless. Its parent speaker, the c12K sounds the same to my ears.

I have a pretty large stock of speakers and tested a bunch before determining the C12Q was the standout. There is a reason Fender puts this speaker in its very expensive hand-wired DR and it is because it sounds amazing. Just like a DR is supposed to sound - bright and articulate.

As an aside, I recommended this change to a buddy who is a very accomplished blues guitarist and he is very happy with the change. It's like someone took the blanket off the amp.

As a bonus, it is a 1/2 lb lighter than the N12K.

 

[birv2]

I did exactly this. I find the N12K sounds wooden and lifeless. Its parent speaker, the c12K sounds the same to my ears.

I have a pretty large stock of speakers and tested a bunch before determining the C12Q was the standout. There is a reason Fender puts this speaker in its very expensive hand-wired DR and it is because it sounds amazing. Just like a DR is supposed to sound - bright and articulate.

As an aside, I recommended this change to a buddy who is a very accomplished blues guitarist and he is very happy with the change. It's like someone took the blanket off the amp.

As a bonus, it is a 1/2 lb lighter than the N12K.

Thanks for the reply! I wish I had one I could try before buying, but perhaps I can get a 30-day return from somewhere.

 

[birv2]

I haven't spent a ton of time with these, but being a modeling amp, the breakup is coming strictly from the modeling, so I don't know if replacing the speaker with one that will introduce speaker breakup is what the engineers intended, but sure, why not? Give it a try and let us know how it works out.

One suggestion: skip the Jensen and get a WGS G12Q instead.

Thanks for the reply. Why do you recommend the WGS instead? Just curious.

 

[InstantCoffeeBlue]

Thanks for the reply. Why do you recommend the WGS instead? Just curious.

I just have never cared for the Jensen reissues. They can sound ok with a lot of break in at gig volume, but in my experience WGS speakers sound great out of the box. The G12Q is essentially the 12" equivalent to the WGS Veteran 10, which has great vintage breakup characteristics. I would say it's comparable to the Jensen you're looking at, but will just be a bit more musical. YMMV, as they say, but I think it's worth checking out.

 

[birv2]

I just have never cared for the Jensen reissues. They can sound ok with a lot of break in at gig volume, but in my experience WGS speakers sound great out of the box. The G12Q is essentially the 12" equivalent to the WGS Veteran 10, which has great vintage breakup characteristics. I would say it's comparable to the Jensen you're looking at, but will just be a bit more musical. YMMV, as they say, but I think it's worth checking out.

Thanks for the reply. Going now to look up the weight.....

 

[TwoBear]

Thanks for the reply. Going now to look up the weight.....

Weber speakers might be having a sale also. I put one of their alNico speakers in my tweed deluxe build, and was quite pleased. I think there is doping options?

 

[Pcs264]

I got a TMDR not long after they came out and really liked it but just wasn't sure about that Jensen Neo speaker. Let it break in for a few month, still didn't care for it, and I swapped it for an Eminence Legend 1218. Wow, that Emi just made the TMDR come alive! The Emi weighs 4.4 lbs more than the Neo, so I added a bit of weight, but it was a real improvement.

Part Two: About a year later I got a TMTR, and same story as Part One. I replaced the two Neos with two Emi 1218s and got the same result: the TMTR just came alive, and sounds like everything a Twin Reverb should be, at every volume level. Sure, I added 9 lbs to the TMTR, but it sounds wonderful and still barely weighs 40 lbs. More than worth che cost and weight of the new speakers.

 

[birv2]

With all the extensive discussion about the TMs, I have heard very little mention of speaker swaps. I take that to mean people are pretty satisfied with the Neo. I'm satisfied with mine. Still, speaker swaps are always interesting. Would be curious to hear the results.

The more I research, the more I'm inclined not to change the speaker. First of all, you have to figure that that speaker was chosen by Fender for a reason. Their big selling point is that these amps "sound just like" a tube DR. Whether that's true or not is open to discussion, but no two tube DR's sound exactly alike anyway. My guess is that they had this speaker built because it best reproduced the tone they programmed the amp to make. It's a gear rabbit hole that I'm not convinced will be worth diving into. At least, that's how I feel at this point!

 

[schmee]

Has anyone done this? Is it worth it, ie: is the difference in sound so great that it's worth spending $100 on the new speaker?

I'm not dissatisfied with the current speaker, but something a bit "bluesier" intrigues me.

I would not, the C12Q is a bland, slightly harsh speaker with minimal bottom end. It will not be what I think of as "bluesier" at all. What's in your TM?

 

[birv2]

I got a TMDR not long after they came out and really liked it but just wasn't sure about that Jensen Neo speaker. Let it break in for a few month, still didn't care for it, and I swapped it for an Eminence Legend 1218. Wow, that Emi just made the TMDR come alive! The Emi weighs 4.4 lbs more than the Neo, so I added a bit of weight, but it was a real improvement.

Part Two: About a year later I got a TMTR, and same story as Part One. I replaced the two Neos with two Emi 1218s and got the same result: the TMTR just came alive, and sounds like everything a Twin Reverb should be, at every volume level. Sure, I added 9 lbs to the TMTR, but it sounds wonderful and still barely weighs 40 lbs. More than worth che cost and weight of the new speakers.

Thanks for the reply. I'm definitely not willing to add to the weight of the amp, since that was one of the major selling points for me. The other, of course, was the tone. I'm not convinced it's going to be worth the trouble and money to switch speakers. To me, they don't sound at all like they have the proverbial blanket on them. Maybe it's just my ears, or maybe it's psychoacoustics?

 

[Pcs264]

The more I research, the more I'm inclined not to change the speaker. First of all, you have to figure that that speaker was chosen by Fender for a reason. Their big selling point is that these amps "sound just like" a tube DR. Whether that's true or not is open to discussion, but no two tube DR's sound exactly alike anyway. My guess is that they had this speaker built because it best reproduced the tone they programmed the amp to make. It's a gear rabbit hole that I'm not convinced will be worth diving into. At least, that's how I feel at this point!

I'm pretty sure that Fender worked with Jensen on speakers for the TMTR and TMDR balancing three main goals: sound, weight (as this is a prime selling point for the Tone Master series) and the price point they wanted the amps to sell for. I don't think the Jensen Neos sound bad; I just felt they lacked some girth and low-end richness (my ears hear that in pretty much all the current Jensens). For my ears, the Emi Legends gave me the richness my ears wanted to hear, with a modest (acceptable to me) weight increase. For my needs, the Jensen to Emi speaker swaps in both the TMDR and TMTR turned really good amps into great amps.

Having said all that, each of us gets to make the same personal decision on this balancing the cost of a speaker swap, the extra weight it might add, and whether any possible change in tone is worth it.

 

[Tony65x55]

I'm pretty sure that Fender worked with Jensen on speakers for the TMTR and TMDR balancing three main goals: sound, weight (as this is a prime selling point for the Tone Master series) and the price point they wanted the amps to sell for. I don't think the Jensen Neos sound bad; I just felt they lacked some girth and low-end richness (my ears hear that in pretty much all the current Jensens). For my ears, the Emi Legends gave me the richness my ears wanted to hear, with a modest (acceptable to me) weight increase. For my needs, the Jensen to Emi speaker swaps in both the TMDR and TMTR turned really good amps into great amps.

Having said all that, each of us gets to make the same personal decision on this balancing the cost of a speaker swap, the extra weight it might add, and whether any possible change in tone is worth it.

Indeed, my first go-to speaker was the Emi Legend and this improvement was significant and as you say, the weight increase was minimal. That got me swapping speakers in and out and to my ears, the winner was the Jensen C12Q. Not bland, harsh, or tinny. A gorgeous Deluxe Reverb sound. As I said, that is the reason Fender loads it into their $4K hand-wired DR. You won't sell very many at that price if they don't sound terrific.

I also tried the WGS G12Q as well. It was pretty good too. All of them were better than the N12K.

 

[Bluesbrother777]

I have a C12Q in my DRRI and it is indeed bright and articulate, maybe a bit too bright but it’s not fully broken in yet. The big thing about this speaker is it’s rated at 93.2db. That’s about 6-8db lower than a lot of the powerful modern speakers that are popular replacements. So now I can run it at 4-5 at home and the amp tone is great compared to running it at 2-3 with a loud speaker. I haven’t tried it with a band yet, but I suspect it wouldn’t cut it clean without being miked, especially in a large R&B band with horns.

TMDR is a different beast altogether, if the C12Q happens to work with it then it’s all good. I would have thought something like Eminence Swamp Thing would work better given that TMDR has an attenuator.

I first checked this speaker out because Fender put it in their handwired ‘64 Deluxe Reverb. I saw the sensitivity rating and thought it would be a nice way to knock the volume down for home use. So far, I’m digging it.