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Speaker cab advise

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Zepfan, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    I'm not completely satisfied with the speaker in my 50watt Katana. I have a 12" Eminence Cannibus Rex coming soon. I need to build a cab for it because I want to be able to A/B between speakers.

    Question is: What materials would you guys suggest using for the baffle and cab?
     
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  2. Laxy picker

    Laxy picker TDPRI Member

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    I agree. The kat 50 speaker pushed craps out. I threw a Jenson mod 70 in mine. For cabinet woods void free Baltic birch plywood works well. Its what many high end sound system cabs are made with.
     
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  3. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    You have some choices.
    I would use pine for the cab, with a 1/2 to 3/4 inch void free Baltic Birch baffle for most cabs.
    I used 5/16 inch void free Baltic Birch for a floating baffle design like the late 50's Fender Deluxe.

    You can use void free Baltic Birch for the cabinet.
     
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  4. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    You might check what mfg you like are using and config. I love an old boogie cabinet I heard that was 3/4 closed. Imho
     
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  5. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I like AC fir plywood for speaker cabs, and can use 1/2” for both case and baffle.
    Baltic birch is fine if thin and large sections, but a small cab of 3/4” Baltic birch will sound harsh and boxy. IME.
    A thick (3/4” is thick) baffle will sound stiff / harsh / body.
    Solid pine is nice for the case and comes sized to 11 1/4 wide, handy if you have no table saw.
    If Baltic birch is used for the baffle you want thin like 3/8”.
     
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  6. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    If you want to accurately A/B them, copy what you have. Or record a loop, play it. through your existing amp with both speakers... and record that.

    If you want something different, well, that opens up the possibilities, huh?

    Like stated, a small cab out of really stiff materials may tend to be a bit tight, or maybe boxy. Closed back will emphasize this a bit. That might be what you need?

    I tend to like less efficient, less tight, looser, more active cabinets. So, I like open back, finger jointed pine, and a light, thin baffle. Even for my Bassman and Twin, I use 1/4" baltic birch for my baffles. Stiff enough to hold the speakers and not break, flexible enough to be nice and active. But, that's probably way different than your Katana.


    You'll have to make the final decision, of course. Which direction do you think you want to go?
     
  7. Dukex

    Dukex Tele-Afflicted

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    I've used 5/8 Baltic birch for both the cab and baffle.

    Good pine for the cab is also always a good choice IMO.

    I've also gone to thrift stores and bought solid wood end tables and installed a baffle. Here's a big, circa 1964, 5-sided, solid oak end table ($20) conversion:

    IMG_0030.JPG IMG_0032.JPG
     
  8. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    Question: Is the Cannabis Rex the best speaker choice for a modelling amp? Seems a speaker with a lot of character when it should be neutral.
     
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  9. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I think the Rex, perhaps most hemp types, are darker than most..either way they have a character.
    I think modeling, since it covers all music, would be best served
    by a strong neo of some type. imho
     
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  10. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    Off the top of my head, the most neutral sounding speaker is the Celestion Seventy 80.
     
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  11. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    A link to Boss' online product info re: Katana speaker specs:
    https://rolandus.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001797863-KATANA-50-100-HEAD-ARTIST-SPEAKER-SPECS#

    They don't offer up much useful info. Probably suggests a replacement might offer a good deal of room for improvement. If you could uncover a nominal frequency range or even the response graph over the normal guitar range that would give some kind of idea of how 'neutral' (or not) it actually is.

    Link to the Eminence C-Rex page: https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Cannabis_Rex.pdf

    I noticed that the C-Rex is available in 8 and 16 ohm versions, BUT..
    It appears (from the online product info..) that your Katana 50 uses a 4ohm speaker -- did you check yours to make sure? If this is true, then you'll have an impedance mismatch (4 vs. 8? ohms).. Just wanted to point that out before you get any farther.. Eminence describes the C-Rex as a speaker targeting jazz, classical, country -- translation: clean tones.

    Edit: Oh, the 11.25" wide pine boards at your local big box store works fine for building the box (be picky and find the straightest unwarped board(s)!). The baltic birch ply works great for a baffle as said before.

    Edit2: More on the speaker differences/change.. Going from a 4ohm speaker to an 8ohm speaker would not normally cause any problem for a SS amp. At worst, you'll likely cut the output power down to about 50% of what was expressed through a 4 ohm speaker. At the same time, the C-Rex is a VERY efficient speaker -- so that, you'll likely compensate on the other side of the equation by getting more db per unit of power compared to the stock speaker. Note: I say that without the benefit of first-hand experience of the Katana ..just basing all this on some quick research and spec sheets. Again, a lot of the questions or gray area in doing this would be answered with a detailed list of specs for the Katana speaker.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  12. Milspec

    Milspec Poster Extraordinaire

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    Pine and Birch are the normal choices and both perform well.

    Witht he high cost of wood these days, both poplar and willow also make for great cabinets. So, if your region has that available fora good price....that will work as well if not better than Pine / Birch.
     
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  13. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    Regardless of what Eminence describes targeting the C. Rex at, IME it's a good choice for any amp where things might sound a bit too bright or harsh with a 'more traditional' speaker choice, either clean or not.

    I've personally had great success with the C. Rex in a Deluxe Reverb, because most (or possibly all) Jensen C12X types of speakers I've tried were just way too bright for my tastes.

    That said, I'm currently using a C. Rex in an open back 1X12 cab with my Marshall Origin 20 head, and IMO it sounds fantastic (both clean and dirty). I thought I might prefer something traditionally 'Celestion'ish brighter', but it turns out the C. Rex is a near perfect fit, at least for my preferences.
     
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  14. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    Yup, totally agree. Some players don't seem to like it, but what I've heard sounds good to me.
    (don't have one yet but was considering adding one to the mix).
     
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  15. W.L.Weller

    W.L.Weller Tele-Holic

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    This is the problem with recommendations. One person's "bright and sparkling" is another's "harsh and peaky". Similarly, someone's "dark and muddy" is someone else's "smooth and warm".
     
  16. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    The speaker arrived today and looks great.

    The Katana speaker is good on all the settings, but has a Marshall type tone to it. That isn't a bad thing, but I want to be able to get some American voiced tones as well and ones that don't come out sounding a bit sterile.
    It's amazing what the cab materials, cab size and whether the back is closed or not can do to the sound. I'm seeing some suggestions on Pine for the cab and that's easily done. I've heard people talk good things about Birch for baffles before and the 3/8ths" thick baffle sounds like a good suggestion.
    Thinking about a closed back, but maybe having a back that swings open or maybe a half flap that will fold down. Does that sound like a good idea to you guys.
     
  17. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I like the option with something like an open middle that can be closed.
    I think any part on hinges or otherwise movable needs to be either screwed down tight or gone, to avoid buzzing or rattling.
    I set a cab with casters on end and the casters rattle.
    The few cabs I made convertible, I ended up leaving semi open, which is or can be a nice compromise between fully open and sealed.
    The common Dumble cab with rear opening just big enough to get a speaker through seems to work well, a little tighter than a Fender combo cab but adds rear dispersion and IDK maybe sounds a little looser but not flubby.

    Is there a reason you might want fully sealed?
    IDK, that just lost favor in my cabs, the sound didn't match my idea of why I wanted it.
    Even my old Marshall 1960b got fitted with a semi open back, I think it sounds better.
    I think when speakers barely handled the amps power and PA was for vocals, sealed made more sense.
    Even the tighter bass can now be gotten from most modern drivers in open back.
     
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  18. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Almost 20 years ago I built what might be the worst sounding cab on earth.
    Had an optional closed back and didn’t have the two front ports I later added to try to loosen it up. Must have put ten different good sounding speakers in and they all sounded bad!

    B28D5AB3-10CD-487E-9537-891CB9A96224.jpeg 544031FA-4129-44DE-8324-1A94107E7144.jpeg
     
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  19. PhredE

    PhredE Tele-Afflicted

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    Just wanted to throw out a couple things..(in no apparent order)

    Did you get the 8 ohm version? Just curious.

    Be prepared to break the speaker in -- at least if you want to have a good and immediate sense of what the speaker really sounds like (or will sound like) eventually. If you can hook it up to a stereo or otherwise play music into it for several hours at a decent volume that should do the job ok. Some folks like to hook up the leads (to the input source) and just place them face down on a surface and let it go for hours. I haven't done that, but it should work ok.

    Most guitar speakers aren't too particular for closed or open back, and I see from the product info that Eminence suggests the C-Rex works fine either way. What I have done in some cases in the past, is to initially build the box as a closed back, then give it a good listen for hours -- then, decide whether I want to open or partially open the back. I tend to like the more focused sound of closed back (and in some cases, with a front ported box -- depending on bass/low-end response).
    You can always build the box closed and (with some careful woodworking/finishing..) cut the back panel or use 2 pieces to 'open it up' fully or halfway. Similar suggestion is to build the basic box without the back, install the speaker, then test it out with a/some back installed and w/o back installed. That will give some idea of the difference and how to proceed for the finished box.

    I finish mine with spray oil-based PU (polyurethane). The stuff in the rattle can works pretty well (I use Minwax). I don't put too much effort into the finish (I know, I'm lazy.. :oops:) I just want it to look decent and protect the wood ok. Pine can be pretty soft so I have to be careful not to gouge and scrape the box, but I have done touch-up in some cases with pretty good results when that happens. Pine works pretty easy, is light but strong and can look pretty darn good (with the 'right' board) it's a good default choice for the box.

    You might also poke around online for speaker enclosure calculator(s) to see how those work. You won't need to use one now, but if you're considering a more complex design then they are mighty handy to have available.

    Congrats and Good Luck


    PS. I also prefer the more scooped Fender tones compared to others.
     
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  20. wrathfuldeity

    wrathfuldeity Tele-Afflicted

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    One of the first things to figure out is, what type of sound are you going for and at what volume. Low watt/low volume cleans, loud and distorted or FRFS for modeling. Determining this, will give you more direction as to the cab design and materials. I did a diy detuned with convertable back and baffle; ended being particial open back, with detuned ported baffle for low watt tweed amp...love it. But it took awhile to figure what was best and what spkr that worked the best.

    Have fun down the rabbit hole.

    interesting cabinet design ideas... | Telecaster Guitar Forum (tdpri.com)

     
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