1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

Soviet 6V6 versions...Лучевой тетрод

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Bendyha, Aug 2, 2018.

  1. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    As there were a few posts with Russian tube data sheets recently, I thought I might share these bits of information that aren't easy to find out about without lots of searching. I include nothing about modern Russian tubes, only the ones from good-old-days....(OF TUBE MAKING).

    Although East-block countries were making very nice 6V6 tube before the "The Great Patriotic War" (W.W.II) , such as this Tungsram from Hungary, the demand for 6V6GT tubes in Russia first came into being with the arrival of large number of shipments of American equipment using Octal tubes, that was sent to aid the Russian army in defeating Hitler's forces. After the war, Truman cut all exports of replacements to Russia by 1947.
    upload_2018-8-2_19-42-18.png
    Other Countries were still supplying tubes, These were then rebranded, such as this 1947 6V6GT, with a Svetlana “C” logo (which appears to be an Italian Ates 6V6GT)
    upload_2018-8-2_19-43-13.png upload_2018-8-2_19-43-26.png
    But as the demand for replacements grew, it was decided to produce these tubes in factories under Soviet control.
    The Russian name for a Beam Tetrode is - Лучевой тетрод, or Лучевой тетрод косвенного накала тица - Radiation tetrode of indirect glow.

    The Svetlana company in St. Petersburg decided to copy the Sylvania 6V6GT tube being made at the time.
    upload_2018-8-2_19-46-42.png upload_2018-8-2_19-47-0.png
    Here is a 1950 Svetlana made “C” logo labelled 6V6GT, and a Sylvania.

    upload_2018-8-2_19-48-15.png
    The Russians soon took to the Beam Tetrode, and there function was illustrated, and virtues described in a multitude of electronics books.


    In East Germany, the Oberspreewerk in Berlin developed a series of Octal tubes using their own design and designation.

    Here are two of my tubes, a OSW 3106 tube, (also with 6V6 number) which was their take on the 6V6GT, these were made between 1949 & 51, after which one would see HF 3106 between 1951 & 54, then WF after the SAG (Sowjetische Aktien-Gesellschaft) handed over the firm to the East German Volkseigenen Betrieb (VEB).

    By this time the 3106 designation was dropped, and the Soviet 6П6С, with 6V6 was used.

    I have seen quiet a few references to the tube 6AY5 as being an DDR 6V6 equivalent tube, but have not managed to uncover any documentation for the as of yet. (Any information would be gladly received)
    upload_2018-8-2_19-51-14.png upload_2018-8-2_19-51-31.png

    But even later, the main central import/ export supplier of all the East german tubes RSD (Röhren Schnell Dienst), which has been around since 1951, would rebrand many Telefunken and Siemens tubes, but also to my surprise Bendix 5992 tubes (possibly the best 6V6 ever made) I managed to pick this one up cheap before anyone else spotted it for what it really was.....still hoping to find more:D
    upload_2018-8-2_21-47-58.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  2. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    Back in Russia, the Reflector factory, in Saratov, was developing its own take on the tube. Normally covered in a blacked glass mantel, the plate form is not normally to be seen, but here is one with-out the bulb.

    For the next 40 or-so years, this 6П6С became the generic soviet 6V6.

    The western spelling of the Cyrillic 6П6С is 6P6S.
    upload_2018-8-2_19-52-42.png upload_2018-8-2_19-52-54.png
    These tubes often came with a OTK stamp, on the tube or on an accompanying paper. The exact meaning of OTK is somewhat unclear, but its function was supposedly an inspection mark showing it had passed a quality control, either by a military, or some other state technical bureau. Is it really a quality mark? Not really, maybe that it fulfilled at least the minimum standards. But for standard consumer products, for which the tube now was mostly used, they were sufficient.




    The military had an special consignment order of ruggedized 6П6С made, these went under the designation 6П11С (6P11S) sometimes also designated 6П6С-Y2. Although very similar looking to the standard 6П6С, they did have an added framework around the two ends of the central cathode, grid and screen assembly, and the getter is also larger. The electrical tolerances do differ slightly, the main difference being that the maximum plate voltage is given as 900V, with 300V on the screen. Difference between anode and screen should not exceed 600V.

    And... an unexpected note - not to be used in triode mode.

    Here a Reflector 6П11С. upload_2018-8-2_19-54-2.png



    The other premium version that the governmental bureaus for the nuclear industry and the space agency had made as a special consignment, was the 1515.

    This version of mine, has what appears to be the same filament, grid, screen and beam forming plate assembly as the 6П11С, but the plates are obviously different. The Data sheet shows mostly very similar ratings to those of the standard 6П6С, but with somewhat tighter tolerances. Comparing the characteristic chart, the grid curves seem to be more horizontal...but this bogie trace might not mean much.

    upload_2018-8-2_19-57-49.png upload_2018-8-2_19-58-39.png



    Here are the Data-Sheets for the three.

    The 6П6С is fairly ubiquitous, I include two versions here, one with English terminology to aid reading the other Data-Sheets that are only in Russian, that not all of us have learnt to read yet.



    The 6П11С, was harder to find, and all I could come up with was the OTK test paper that was delivered with the tube, but this has the basics on it to show that it is the same as a 6П6С except for the few differences readable from this sheet...most notably... Перeменноe напряжения анодa - Permissible anode voltage.



    The 1515 took quite a bit of searching in Russian before I could come up with more than the brief Data Note shown here, but I was pleased to find this very nice 8 page PDF from 1968.
     
  3. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    upload_2018-8-2_20-0-35.png

    First the Data sheets for the 6П6С - 6P6S - 6V6.

    upload_2018-8-2_20-1-19.jpeg
    upload_2018-8-2_20-1-44.jpeg upload_2018-8-2_20-2-10.jpeg
    upload_2018-8-2_20-2-33.jpeg

    upload_2018-8-2_20-2-58.jpeg
     
    Zeonoid, VintageSG, Nickfl and 3 others like this.
  4. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    Then the 6П11С - 6П6С-Y2 - 6P11S - 6P6S-Y2 - 6V6Y(...ish)
    upload_2018-8-2_20-7-6.jpeg upload_2018-8-2_20-7-26.jpeg
     
    VintageSG, CoyotesGator and Wally like this.
  5. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    And then the 1515, short version and detailed 8 page PDF.
    upload_2018-8-2_20-9-23.jpeg upload_2018-8-2_20-9-40.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    • 1515.pdf
      File size:
      469.2 KB
      Views:
      72
  6. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    С удовольствием;)
     
  7. JDRNoPro

    JDRNoPro Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,044
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Location:
    ME
    Wow! That was very interesting! Thanks for taking the time and effort to share this.
     
  8. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    10,527
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    First the Chinese posts, now this! :eek:
    :p
     
    BigDaddyLH likes this.
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    37,216
    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2003
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX

    Lol
    The Chinese posts are bothersome and mean nothing unless one can decipher them, right?
    Bendyha, thanks for the time spent to illuminate the subject of Russian 6V6 types.

    Musical interlude....

     
  10. CoyotesGator

    CoyotesGator Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    524
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Location:
    Gulf Coast
    Thanks for sharing Bendyha!
     
  11. mgreene

    mgreene Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,035
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    south carolina
    Has anybody ever heard a 6P11S?

    I once saw a thread where a poster claimed that this was one of the best 6V6 types he ever used.
     
  12. VintageSG

    VintageSG Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    4,131
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Wow!.
    I do like the 6p6s, and now I'm going to hunt other types I didn't know existed.
    Brilliant set of posts there Sir, I applaud you.
     
  13. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    Unfortunately it is the only one of the tubes mentioned above that I don't yet own....although i'm not sure if I have the Ates....pretty sure I do...hmmm...must check.
    They tend to be offered for sale at higher prices than the other versions, and rarely as reliable tested pairs.....but I live in hope. They seem to be fairly rare.
    If you are on the look-out for them, don't forget to note that some of them might only have the 6П6С-Y2 marking.
    upload_2018-8-7_22-12-14.png I have read of HiFi tubeheads claiming the 1515 as the best 6V6GT in a tube-rolling sesion, but I have not gotten round to doing A/B tests with the necessary rebiasing each time with my set. I'll let you know the results if I do.
     
    CoyotesGator likes this.
  14. mgreene

    mgreene Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,035
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    south carolina
    Thanks for the info. I used to see them on ebay from time to time, but not in recent years.
     
  15. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    9,781
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    Lawndale CA
    Does anyone else remember the awful black glass Sovtek 6V6 with nothing but "Sovtek" and "6V6" screened on the glass?

    The story I heard at a NAMM show decades ago (from a couple New Sensor reps) was that they were not a 6V6 variant, They were Russian servo tubes that barely missed passing the tests required for 6L6 or 5881 packaging - so they became a 6V6 type instead. Not a great audio tube, but 6V6's were lacking in those days.
     
  16. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    I dunno...one hears that claim often, but the fact that the 6V6 is 1/4" narrower, and an inch shorter.....or so the russian sheets tell us, kinda makes me wounder how no-one notices.
    upload_2018-8-8_20-19-29.png compared to upload_2018-8-8_20-28-33.png oh, and then there is the different bottle shape.......and the apparent lack of all-black 6L6's and 5881's. Did I mention the different plate shape...and size, that wouldn't fit in a 6v6 bottle anyway?

    Does the claim imply that they somehow test the tubes in non-vacuumed conditions somehow? ...and how would this be possible?
     
    radiocaster likes this.
  17. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    9,781
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    Lawndale CA
    The bases were the same. This was supposedly very, very early in Sovtek/New Sensor tube sales. Didn't last long. If I can find an old example in my boxes of "tubes that shouldn't exist" I'll post pics, but I think I tossed them long ago.
     
  18. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,520
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Location:
    europe
    Sovtek haven't made the 6V6 in quite a while. It doesn't surprise me you didn't like them, I've read some Fender amps put over 350V on the anode.

    The JJ 6V6 is a kind of 5881/6L6. Maybe confusing the two?
     
  19. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    2,521
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    Ah...I know...these HD things. From Groovey Tubey Rippoffsky. Yeah, they were supposedly failed 5881's
    upload_2018-8-8_21-55-47.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  20. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    9,781
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    Lawndale CA
    Bingo! That's what I was trying to think of. Early-on Sovtek didn't even HAVE a 6L6, just a 5881, which wasn't a 5881 either. It was more fun when there were just a few things available to make fun of! :D
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.