So you're a musician?
- Thread starter azureglo
- Start date
Seeing this thread pop up makes me think about the subject in different ways. My current thought process is: I have a loose minimum requirement to meet, or I would feel like a poser. Upon reflection, I think I meet my own requirements for being a musician. I am not a luthier, carpenter, auto mechanic, electrician, gunsmith, or artist.
Charlie Bernstein
Doctor of Teleocity
Okay. I've thought about this long enough. Here it is:
I call someone who plays a musical instrument a musician.
I call someone who sings a singer.
I call someone who composes music on a computer or on paper a composer.
Makes sense to me, anyway.
Whew!
Peter Graham
TDPRI Member
I'd say that was an entirely valid position to take.
Just my opinion, of course, but I'd consider someone who creates music to be a composer (or a songwriter), whatever medium they happen to use. But that is not so very different from your position.
The point is really about disabusing this notion that music made on computers is at best bad and at worst not actually music at all. Folk who say that sort of thing are just stepping into the shoes of their parents or grandparents, who'd dismiss most of the musical gods of TDPRI (Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan etc) as "a damn racket. Can't hear the words, old chap. And the soapdodging blighters look like they need a jolly good scrub down."
The excitement that so many people have for electronica and rap acts is just the same as the excitement everyone had for the bands of their youth (which, for me at least, was during the early years of both those forms of music). It's one thing not to like electronica and to think it sounds like a thousand angry bees trying to get out of a tin box, but subjective dislike does not make that whole genre bad.
The times they are a changin', as some dreary hippy that my Dad liked used to warble. Or, as Hawkwind put it in one of their more lucid moments, it is the business of the future to be dangerous.
MyLittleEye
Tele-Meister
I've always been strongly attracted to female musicians.
Weirdly, women Banjo players rank above guitarists for me (but below fiddle players)!
MyLittleEye
Tele-Meister
I saw this and it really made me smile - Way to go Jazzers! It's a refreshing trend that steps beyond the stale old standards. I genuinely and unexpectedly enjoyed this stuff so I hope it catches on.
MyLittleEye
Tele-Meister
I'm reminded of a folk music session I once joined in with at a pub by the Ironbridge Gorge.
A motor cycle rolled up loudly outside, the door opened and this big hairy denim clad biker strode in and swung himself down beside us. He then unslung from his back what looked very much like some sort of shotgun case... pulled out a fine set of Uillean Bagpipes and proceeded to regale us with a memorable set of Irish jigs and reels before roaring off once more into the night!
I never did learn the fellows identity but what an identity he carried!
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Harry Styron
Friend of Leo's
The year that I was the concerts committee chair at my university (1972), I was incredibly popular with young women. My musical skills were irrelevant. At that time, I connected with one of these women and chose her to be on the concerts committee. Then I found out that she was an exquisite singer, with a lovely speaking voice, who was intelligent, kind and beautiful. We married in 1974 and are still together.
She has lost many abilities due to Alzheimer’s, but she is still intelligent, kind and beautiful. She still reads music and sings in a very fine choir.
There is no question that her musical abilities were a big part of what drew me to her.
She has lost many abilities due to Alzheimer’s, but she is still intelligent, kind and beautiful. She still reads music and sings in a very fine choir.
There is no question that her musical abilities were a big part of what drew me to her.
Mowgli
Tele-Holic
Perhaps I am reading too much into the original poster’s (OP’s) story?
One view is this woman’s limited understanding of the term “musician” AND that her unmet “expectations” regarding what she expected (glamour, glitz, drugs, sex, rock and roll, excess, etc) were “initially” viewed as a disappointment because the OP’s own “expectations” were that she was educated about music and would be impressed by his real musicianship.
But, NOW, the OP has mixed feelings; one is still “the sting of disappointment” that the pretty woman rejected him because he was an “uncool type” of musician in her ignorant but pretty eyes… but is also soothed by the reality that he “probably” and luckily sidestepped a toxic relationship because her history strongly suggests that she was one of those types who is a “taker and no giver.” A toxic person looking for a meal ticket.
In other words, the OP was uneducated or uninformed about the fact that many attractive women (and men; let’s not be sexist here) are looking for someone to take care of them and provide them with what they consider an exciting and comfortable life/lifestyle. They aren’t looking for a healthy and equitable relationship. Now he has that wisdom and can reflect upon the encounter more clearly.
To wit…
In my younger days I was a decent looking guy; not Brad Pitt, Rob Lowe or Denzel Washington but one where the sister and mother would instantly approve. At a college town bar one evening my eyes locked with a woman who, to this day, was the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes upon. My dream woman. After several glances and smiles we bumped into each other eventually leading to a date.
During the date I learned that she was from Florida. Understand that a few years earlier Fidel Castro had emptied his prisons and Florida was flooded with a lot of these people. Not all were criminals; many were political prisoners. Regardless, there were a lot of people who were upset with these “uninvited guests” who decided to stay in Florida. We were at a restaurant bar and things were going well until a song by the Miami Sound Machine played over the sound system. Suddenly she erupted into a screed about how she hated Cubans and spewed a good amount of racist invective. Unbeknownst to her I had two wonderful Cuban friends, both musicians, growing up and their parents were wonderful people. As the evening progressed I kept recalling her rascist rant… I couldn’t get passed it… and she grew progressively less attractive to me as the evening passed. By the evening’s end she was no longer attractive to me. I dropped her off and told her to have a nice life.
In retrospect, I think I made a mistake. I was ignorant, too. I didn’t realize then that I had the chance to educate her that groups of people are not “monoliths.” No person or groups of people is/are all good or all bad; some are more bad than good but most are more good than bad. Nor did I recognize that many people have the capacity to change! We are not zebras; many do “lose their stripes!” I didn’t know if she had that capacity or not; I just mistakenly assumed she didn’t. I mistakenly assumed she would always be a racist and wrote her off. So I, too, have mixed feelings about this encounter. I hope she changed.
Lastly, an old female friend who was married went out for drinks after work for a ladies night out. As they were talking about “men” one of the single women told the group, “I really like the guy I’m dating. He’s handsome, funny, good in bed, seems to like kids… but it will never work. He has a low-paying job. He will never be able to provide me the large house with a sunroom that I want.”
My friend was appalled. She thought she was in the presence of some loathsome soap opera TV character straight from central casting. But I have learned over the decades the truth; many men and women both just want to have someone take care of them and don’t expect to return such affection. Life isn’t always fair. So be careful out there!
One view is this woman’s limited understanding of the term “musician” AND that her unmet “expectations” regarding what she expected (glamour, glitz, drugs, sex, rock and roll, excess, etc) were “initially” viewed as a disappointment because the OP’s own “expectations” were that she was educated about music and would be impressed by his real musicianship.
But, NOW, the OP has mixed feelings; one is still “the sting of disappointment” that the pretty woman rejected him because he was an “uncool type” of musician in her ignorant but pretty eyes… but is also soothed by the reality that he “probably” and luckily sidestepped a toxic relationship because her history strongly suggests that she was one of those types who is a “taker and no giver.” A toxic person looking for a meal ticket.
In other words, the OP was uneducated or uninformed about the fact that many attractive women (and men; let’s not be sexist here) are looking for someone to take care of them and provide them with what they consider an exciting and comfortable life/lifestyle. They aren’t looking for a healthy and equitable relationship. Now he has that wisdom and can reflect upon the encounter more clearly.
To wit…
In my younger days I was a decent looking guy; not Brad Pitt, Rob Lowe or Denzel Washington but one where the sister and mother would instantly approve. At a college town bar one evening my eyes locked with a woman who, to this day, was the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes upon. My dream woman. After several glances and smiles we bumped into each other eventually leading to a date.
During the date I learned that she was from Florida. Understand that a few years earlier Fidel Castro had emptied his prisons and Florida was flooded with a lot of these people. Not all were criminals; many were political prisoners. Regardless, there were a lot of people who were upset with these “uninvited guests” who decided to stay in Florida. We were at a restaurant bar and things were going well until a song by the Miami Sound Machine played over the sound system. Suddenly she erupted into a screed about how she hated Cubans and spewed a good amount of racist invective. Unbeknownst to her I had two wonderful Cuban friends, both musicians, growing up and their parents were wonderful people. As the evening progressed I kept recalling her rascist rant… I couldn’t get passed it… and she grew progressively less attractive to me as the evening passed. By the evening’s end she was no longer attractive to me. I dropped her off and told her to have a nice life.
In retrospect, I think I made a mistake. I was ignorant, too. I didn’t realize then that I had the chance to educate her that groups of people are not “monoliths.” No person or groups of people is/are all good or all bad; some are more bad than good but most are more good than bad. Nor did I recognize that many people have the capacity to change! We are not zebras; many do “lose their stripes!” I didn’t know if she had that capacity or not; I just mistakenly assumed she didn’t. I mistakenly assumed she would always be a racist and wrote her off. So I, too, have mixed feelings about this encounter. I hope she changed.
Lastly, an old female friend who was married went out for drinks after work for a ladies night out. As they were talking about “men” one of the single women told the group, “I really like the guy I’m dating. He’s handsome, funny, good in bed, seems to like kids… but it will never work. He has a low-paying job. He will never be able to provide me the large house with a sunroom that I want.”
My friend was appalled. She thought she was in the presence of some loathsome soap opera TV character straight from central casting. But I have learned over the decades the truth; many men and women both just want to have someone take care of them and don’t expect to return such affection. Life isn’t always fair. So be careful out there!
Telecastoff1
Friend of Leo's
Back in the 60's and 70's, we played 4-6 nights per week, and called ourselves "Musicians", if nothing else but to legitimize what we were doing for a living, even though none of us could read or write music. But as long as the the talent was good, no-one argued the point that we were performing music and making a living at it.
Fast-forward to now.....we generally play two nights a week...two-hours first set, 15 minute break and finish that final two hours non-stop playing and keeping the dance floors packed. We work really hard at what we do and have fun doing it. That's why we still do it....because it's still fun. Musicians??? Hmmm, not so sure, but as four individuals working together to make music, we're a band.
Fast-forward to now.....we generally play two nights a week...two-hours first set, 15 minute break and finish that final two hours non-stop playing and keeping the dance floors packed. We work really hard at what we do and have fun doing it. That's why we still do it....because it's still fun. Musicians??? Hmmm, not so sure, but as four individuals working together to make music, we're a band.
MyLittleEye
Tele-Meister
I might loosely call myself a musician, however I own/have owned a lot more musical instruments than I can actually play and I perceive there's such a thing as an 'accomplished' musician, which I am not.
teletail
Friend of Leo's
I’m not sure why some people have to label themselves and others and then parse each label to create some artificial pecking order. It’s more important how we think of ourselves than how others think of us. You want to call yourself a musician? Who am I to argue?
Charlie Bernstein
Doctor of Teleocity
Not exactly what I said, but exactly what I meant.
Yup. I don't enjoy it, but there's plenty of music (and visual art and food and cities and cars and insects) I don't like.
I worked at a big box store for a couple of years, and the piped in music was all cut-and-paste pop schlock. Made eight hours seem like a month.
Now you got me. I've turned into as cranky a curmudgeon as my dad ever was.
Yup! In fact, that's why I took up guitar. And why I never tell my youngest niece that the music she listens to sucks.
Now they're too damn clean, manicured, buffed, shined, spit-polished, and gussied up.
Then they put on hundred-dollar jeans with ready-made rips and tears.
How can one not. Used to work with an electronica fan. From his desk all day long: TSSS-tikka-TSS-tikka-TSS-tikka-TSS-tikka . . . .
It does in my house!
How I wish.
=O[
Yup, again! And as Breakwind put it, it's the business of the present to stink.
Good thoughts. Thanks!
memorex
Poster Extraordinaire
I consider myself a musician because I've studied one instrument or another for 65 years, and play several well. But a professional musician, no, because I've never made a living from playing music, and I don't want to. By profession, I'm a semi-retired software developer, that's what I've been paid to do for the last 30 years.
Fendereedo
Doctor of Teleocity
I'm a hack, always have been.
azureglo
TDPRI Member
Good to see some life in this wee thread, still lacking some stories about funny/sad/poignant encounters with civilians who have some strange ideas of what a musician is and does.
FWIW I'm a "musician" because that's how I earn a living and have done so for 40 years (apart from a decade spent setting up a web company to sell for my retirement fund) and that's what the IRS and UK inland revenue classify me as. A critique on my abilities it ain't.
But that said when folk ask what "bands" I've played with, they are taken aback when I rattle off various West End and Broadway shows plus assorted orchestras , somehow the BBC Radio Orchestra doesn't quite have the cachet of Arcade Fire amongst todays younger music lovers.
As for other folks definitions, Walter Becker's quote from Fagen's bio ,The Nightfly ( book not album) sums it up for me , as he commented on Fagen's previous three guitarists at Bard:
"One was crude and primitive in his playing, one was just plain offensive and the third just wore a guitar in an interesting way." (sic)
FWIW I'm a "musician" because that's how I earn a living and have done so for 40 years (apart from a decade spent setting up a web company to sell for my retirement fund) and that's what the IRS and UK inland revenue classify me as. A critique on my abilities it ain't.
But that said when folk ask what "bands" I've played with, they are taken aback when I rattle off various West End and Broadway shows plus assorted orchestras , somehow the BBC Radio Orchestra doesn't quite have the cachet of Arcade Fire amongst todays younger music lovers.
As for other folks definitions, Walter Becker's quote from Fagen's bio ,The Nightfly ( book not album) sums it up for me , as he commented on Fagen's previous three guitarists at Bard:
"One was crude and primitive in his playing, one was just plain offensive and the third just wore a guitar in an interesting way." (sic)
String Tree
Doctor of Teleocity
When I was Single and, on the Road, WOW!!!A friend sent me this well-known meme now that’s its common knowledge amongst them that I write and produce pop, dance and K-Pop tracks after years of playing mostly jazz and looking down at their pop sensibilities,
to whit:
It made me think of memorable moments in my social life that were centred around my being a professional musician…
Way back in the in 1981, one of my neighbours had a barbeque and I met his utterly charming sister, a single 20 something like me. She was excited when she found out that I was a “professional musician”, i.e. my full time job.
We arranged to go an date and I suggested she come watch me work (so I could duly impress her) and then we could go for a late night romantic meal. So roll on Saturday night and there was yours truly in his finest wedding tuxedo and bow tie, in the pit band doing a Morecambe and Wise special at the old Rediffusion studios now owned by Lee International in Wembley (where we both lived).It was my best paid gig as I got double scale and golden as it was the weekend and after 5pm, plus I was playing in a top rated TV show watched by millions, what could possibly go wrong?
After the show, she came down to the green room and after a few drinks and some banter with the totally charming Eric Morecambe , off we went to a little faux French bistro a few doors down.
I couldn’t help noticing she didn’t seem particularly enthusiastic and as we got to the coffees and black forest gateau ( folks this was 1981 and I was showing my exceptional gourmand taste) I asked her what was wrong.
She rather sadly told me that when she heard I was a professional musician , that it would be something like Pink Floyd or Blondie etc. She complained, you play the stuff my dad likes and in a suit.
We finished our meal and went our separate ways, me to another few decades of session, pit band and cruises then starting and selling a web agency, finally returning to sessions, writing and producing. She got married to a local jack the lad turned property developer and moved to sunny Spain.
The meme made me curious as to what had happened to her: Knowing she now lived in Dorset, very near me (through her brother), we met for a coffee a few days ago: It turns out out she had a pretty wild ride for the past four decades including five marriages. Her first one ended when jack the lad turned out to more of fraudster than a business man and ran off to hide in Greece and was subsequently jailed for 10 years. Her latest lasted two years until he ran off to Thailand with her teenage daughters best friend, also a teenager.
I also noted there was an awful lot of hand touching , complementing me on my still shoulder length hair and hugging going on and then she leant over and asked,
“So you are still a musician?”
“Yes” I replied
“and I’ve still got that tuxedo that your dad liked so much.”
I’d love to hear of your musically influenced encounters.
The Direct Approach served me well.
It was great!!!
It would kill me to go back to that kind of behavior.
YEP!!!
What a great story. Smiling from ear to ear.
Telling people I was a pro musician (in my case entertainer/musician) was a good filter to determine how they really saw me once they knew I couldn’t help them get ahead in whatever game they were playing at the moment. I’d rather know up front anyway.
I have been scratching around on a guitar since 1973 but I am not a musician.
