Sixteen and Twenty-five. Two important numbers to know. What?

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by boneyguy, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    So I get an email with a link to a Doug Seven video about jazzin' up your playing. I like the guy and he's a hot country player that's for sure. So as he's describing what the video lesson will contain he says he'll be looking at common jazz stuff like "the sixteen, the twenty-five". Wait...what? I rewind the vid. Yep, there it is again "the sixteen, the twenty-five".

    Then in a flash it dawns on me what he's talking about..

    I-VI-II-V
    or
    1-6-2-5

    "the sixteen, the twenty-five".

    Too funny. Now that's really using some verbal 'shorthand'. I've never heard anyone call it that before. :D
     
  2. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've never heard it like that either.

    My fave is 44 55 ... two bars of IV and two bars of V. Nashville thing.
     
  3. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I kinda like it for some reason.
     
  4. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    This might be as good a place to ask it as any.

    Folks often refer to "The Nashville Numbering System". Is it any different than the "usual" Roman numeral system? Is the breakthrough just that you don't have to learn Roman numerals?
     
  5. gtroates

    gtroates Tele-Meister

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    I have used both, they are similar at first glance but have differences worth looking into. The Nashville Number System also includes timing notation shorthand and uses arrows, dots, commas, underlines, dashes, et al to indicate various rhythmic placement of the chords and sometimes also melody notation in numbers.

    Nashville numbers are used at many Nashville studios and are quite easy to use in arranging pieces on the fly. The leader will sometimes call out intro vamps at gigs with the shorthand spoken as above: a four measure fourteen-fifty one in G major is a measure each of G C D C.

    There is a great book available with examples of many players' personal charts using the system called "The Nashville Number System" by Chas Williams. The system is a freehand pencil on paper system with superscript numbers and symbols not available on most typewriters so you won't see it used on a typing based medium like Internet forums are. You'd have to scan it in and that is slower than just typing Roman Numerals for posting. Brent Mason and many other studio musicians are fluent in the number system, if you are curious it is worth diving into and exploring. If you had work in these studios you would need to be able to quickly grasp the slang to keep up.
     
  6. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    The 'Nashville' way is more than just how they number the chords.
    In just the chord numbering aspect of it yes, it's essentially the same as with the Roman numerals.
    The thing that really sets the NN system is how they notate the form and layout of the tune. How many beats a chord gets, pickup notes, certain rhythms and held chords, key changes, etc.
    In my limited experience with it (here in L.A.) I've noticed that D.S., D.C., Coda, repeat signs, 1st and 2nd endings and some rhythmic notation are generally notated 'standard' (as in standard notation). I've also noticed that there's some variation in how different writers/players/arrangers/copyists will write the NN charts.
    All in all it's pretty easy if you understand how to read a chord chart and can transpose well.
     
  7. xMercury69x

    xMercury69x Friend of Leo's

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    Fibonacci, imo
     
  8. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    F (0) = 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 ...
    Or, F (1) = 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 ...
     
  9. telex76

    telex76 Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Redd Volkaert had a lesson I saw a long time ago.
    He talked of the intro being a 5511. I didn;t know what he was talking about until I studied up on the Nashville number system.
     
  10. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I've had bass players tell me (about a kick) 'its a fiftyfiveeleven' for years… or 'all ones til he sings'
     
  11. gtroates

    gtroates Tele-Meister

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    Sorry, I made an error in my last post which I needed to fix. The fourteen-fifty one in G major is G C D G, that's what happens when I press send before reading through, oops!
     
  12. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    So the A section of ATTYA is 62 51 47 33?
     
  13. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    That's actually a great way to remember 'form' of a ton of tunes on a single page.
     
  14. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Although I cheated: where's the point about "_7 33" modulating to C?
     
  15. upinthemteles

    upinthemteles Tele-Meister

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    while saying 16 25 makes sense and sounds kind of cool, I'd rather someone just told me 1 6 2 5. Then I don't have to do more figuring than is necessary, also shorter syllables.
     
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