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Single coils placed next to each other?

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Declan012, Feb 28, 2014.

  1. Declan012

    Declan012 TDPRI Member

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    So...I'm rambling on in my head, but what would happen if I put two lipstick coils next to each other on my tele, and wired them to the same legs as the pickup selector. So both are on at the same time?

    Also, what would happen with the magnets? would It start going spacky wacky and giving me hideous feedback? Or would it just give me a fuller sound that one single coil.

    Also, in a nut shell, what would I expect if I slanted the pikcups? Either way.
     
  2. raito

    raito Poster Extraordinaire

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    Slanting changes the harmonic content that the pickup picks up. I could do better with a picture, but the effect is similar (but not the same) as changing where you pick the string. Think of how the string vibrates. Now think if what happens when the pickup is at various points on the string.
     
  3. loopy reed

    loopy reed Friend of Leo's

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    Nope

    Yep
     
  4. joeford

    joeford Friend of Leo's

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    i had this setup on a bass i made when i was a teenager... even gave it a slight slant.

    the slant will change the tone a bit. closer to the bridge will get the brighter and twangier; closer to the neck will get darker and fuller. the typical p-bass setup is a good example of this.

    if you don't have your pickups yet, grab a neck position and a bridge position pickup for this project and you can make in function as a humbucker. the bridge pickup will be louder in the mix, so anticipate that. if you get two of the same pickup, it won't cancel the hum.

    also, the ends of the lipstick pickup... the last 1/2" or so on either side... don't have much sensitivity. keep that in mind when you're designing your angle. make sure that the strings are well clear of the ends, or they'll be significantly lower volume.

    what are your plans? post pics when you're done!
     
  5. ce24

    ce24 Poster Extraordinaire

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    See Robbie Robertson's strat.....He put 2 at the bridge and 1 at the neck.
     
  6. loopy reed

    loopy reed Friend of Leo's

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    Just to make it easier...

    [​IMG]

    From what I understand he had the middle pickup moved to the bridge to get it out of the way while playing. Turns out to be a pretty cool mod, I think. His is one of my favorite "famous" Strats.
     
  7. whodatpat

    whodatpat Friend of Leo's

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    The middle Strat PU is wound backward so that is has a hum canceling quality. 2 singles in opposite winding and wired in series = Humbucker.

    Two normal neck lipsticks will be wound in the same direction so you will not get the canceling affect, but a bigger tone.
     
  8. Mark Adkins

    Mark Adkins Tele-Meister

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    I was thinking that would be the case in my head. I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if one were to swamp the wire connections on the second one, would this simulate a revers wound pickup to achieve the hum cancelling?
     
  9. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    No, they would be out of phase and very thin and nasal sounding

    Well, yes... they would be hum cancelling... ;)
     
  10. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Actually no, as the magnetic polarity of the pickup needs to be reversed as well as the electron pathway to achieve common mode noise cancellation or the "humbucking" effect. If you were feeling adventurous, you could disassemble one pup and do this with a little help from the friendly folks here.

    Rob
     
  11. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Tele-Holic

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    Having two strat type pickups of the same magnetic polarity in close proximity might increase the possibility of wolf tones/intonation issues.

    Like RR's guitar, it is probably safer in the bridge position. In the neck position, where the string deflection is maximum, you might not be so fortunate.

    Single coil pickups, with the exposed magnets, are more prone to the problem to begin with (as compared to say P90 or steel blade designs.)
     
  12. Mark Adkins

    Mark Adkins Tele-Meister

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    Good to know. I love this site. So much knowledge.

    Is the magnetic polarity the big issue, or does the inside versus outside leads make that big of a difference?
     
  13. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    For common mode noise cancellation to occur using two coils, the magnetic field has to be opposite in each coil AND the path of electrons must travel serially in opposite directions. This works in normal Gibson buckers because the bar magnet is magnetized along the long thin edges so one pole touches the slugs and the other pole the screw keeper.

    There are many ways to wind humbucker coils but I wind mine in the same direction with the beginning lead on the left and ending lead on the right. I solder the end leads together so the electron flow goes from the beginning to end of the first coil and then end to beginning of the second effectively changing directions. Then one beginning lead soldered to ground on base plate and the final beginning lead to the hot pickup shielded lead. The braided pickup lead shielding is soldered to the base plate to compete grounding.

    Rob
     
  14. I_build_my_own

    I_build_my_own Friend of Leo's

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    As Rob and others said when you put single coils next to each other in bridge or neck position then a pair needs to consist of a i.e. "regular wound - normal magnet" and "reverse wound - reverse magnet" single coil. This way the 2 bridge single coils in series become noise cancelling and the 2 neck coils by itself become noise cancelling. Exactly as Rob describes it. Check out the link below and see the different ends of the compass needle are attracted by the poles where i.e. one pup in the neck has north up and the other one has south up. Same story in the bridge.

    And yes you cannot bring the pups too close to the strings or else the wolf tone will come out AND the sustain will start to suffer as the magnetic pull will dampen the string vibration.


    http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/413620-4th-july-caster-8.html#post5428311

    It is hard to see in the pic below. The pickup descriptions with the green are "normal" and the one with yellow are "reverse"
     

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  15. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

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    Here's how the hum cancelling works. You need one pickup to be reverse wound and reverse magnet polarity (RWRP) versus the other.

    The reverse winding puts the hum and the signal from the RWRP pickup perfectly out of phase with the output of the other pickup. The reverse polarity flips the signal back in phase without affecting the hum. You end up with signals in phase, hum out of phase.

    The hum cancelling works with the coils in series or parallel. Standard humbuckers have the coils in series because it's a lot less wire to get a given output level.

    For your project with two standard neck pickups (one RWRP), I'd set them up in parallel or add a series/parallel switch. Series will make the sound fatter and about 3 dB louder.

    The setup you are considering will work just fine. If you don't go RWRP with one pickup, it still works - just no hum cancellation. Also, out of phase without reverse polarity will virtually wipe out the signal with phase cancellation - with the pickups very close together, all that would be left would be the very high harmonics.
     
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