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Single coil, noiseless or single sized hum...

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by eat myshorts, Apr 16, 2013.

Which pickup set for this setup

  1. lil 59

    3 vote(s)
    7.9%
  2. vintage rails

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. duckbucker

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. ssl 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. ssl 5 bridge

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. antiquity surf

    2 vote(s)
    5.3%
  7. lace sensor gold

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  8. Dimarzio areas

    9 vote(s)
    23.7%
  9. fralins

    3 vote(s)
    7.9%
  10. Van Zandts

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. bardens

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%
  12. bareknuckles

    3 vote(s)
    7.9%
  13. other

    16 vote(s)
    42.1%
  1. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    hmmmm.... build the cavity with room for additional switches and pots... and where to puut the pots. while this is probably off the topic of this fourm, it's all in context.
    because this is a custom build, i dont see the need for it to clone the way a strat looks what so ever. i'm already planning on a 3 switch layout to offer all possible pickup combinations. the question that remains is the wiring, stick with the traditional 1 vol 2 tone, or perhaps a master volume, with a second volume control attached to the neck or bridge, maybe a 1 volume 3 tone layout(that seems a touch overkill). or even worse.. 2 tones with 2 master volumes controlled by a switch, lead-rhythm switch any1?
    i'ma go do some more diagram digging for ideas, but i thought i'd put that there incase anyone has some nifty wiring scheme.
    Cheers

    hmm, l280's and a pg4-TB bridge?
     
  2. Derek Kiernan

    Derek Kiernan Friend of Leo's

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    Maybe this is too radical a direction, but check out Bill's demo of his microcoil "Esquire" setup here, in which he uses the neck pickup as part of a filter control on the bridge position, as well as an EQ system using the Q-filter, and a smaller capacitor on the tone control to add upper mid coloration and balance highend. You can get incredible versatility this way without ever having different pickup positions. Bill does a nice explanation.
     
  3. Derek Kiernan

    Derek Kiernan Friend of Leo's

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    The LP-style wiring you mentioned is not very useful for either adjusting volume to mix pickups or getting a wide variance of tone in the "inbetween"s, which is why I thought of Bill's wiring in that demo. I have a friend who's considering this style of wiring for a jaguar, but instead making the "rhythm circuit" neck only to compensate for the lack of a neck-only position with the Esquire-style wiring.
     
  4. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    alright.... i feel like i'm getting closer to the ultimate decision. but theres still kinks to be worked out.
    i'm thinking,
    Keystones.
    L200-298.
    or Antiquity surfs (might just drop ssl1's instead)

    now for the kinks... i still havent decided Hss or SSS... so thats another pickup to resolve.
    and i was just thinking.... what if i took one of bills Q filters, used 2 push pull pots for tones, so i can switch between cap tones, and the Q tone... or do i just add another pot and still use the push pulls to rout the tone to the Q instead. and i've heard the Q filter does not work for l200-280's. but i thought i should triple check.
     
  5. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    oohhhhh... i found my benchmark! damnit andy... always gotta make me lust after something! the clip after 3:25 is the tone... i get that i wont be able to match it, but now you guys have a better idea of what im aiming for. :) (now i wait to hear that that tone is nothing special... :neutral:)

    Now to loop that video a few hundred more times...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfsQeqDlneE
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  6. Tele-phone man

    Tele-phone man Tele-Afflicted

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    The build you describe in your opening post (mahogany body, ebony fingerboard, hard-tail bridge) is already compromising your ability to get the tone you point to in that clip. Severely. Now you are asking about noise-canceling pickups to go along with those non-traditional woods and fixed bridge. I just don't think this project has a chance to succeed to your satisfaction.

    If you want the tone you heard on that clip, you need true single-coils of normal output, a trem bridge and a maple fretboard. Doing it the way you are describing is a crapshoot, and I don't think it will sound like a traditional Strat no matter what pickups you put in it.
     
  7. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    yeah...that much i'm aware of... i took a chance with this whole thing, i might get a gem, or maybe a piece of garbage. i get matching that sound is probably an impossibility, but my thoughts are running in 2 different veins. one is to get pickups that sound like the clip, and if for some reason they just suck in the current build, i can change them over to another build on another day. or try and best match pickups to this, and still take the chance that it just sucks, then have pickups i'm clueless what to do with... thankfully the only hardware i couldnt move to a new build is the bridge for a trem strat, the truss rod, and the fretwire. so my investment isn't that huge on this things body, maybe 100 or so. then i can always get new parts, and make this into an awesome sounding guitar, even if it isn't "stratty"
     
  8. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    hmm, maybe i need to open a new topic in the guitar building section at this rate...
    for now lets try this. lets say i were to drop the "strat" moniker, what pickups should i use to get a vintage sounding guitar, i'm still sticking towards the single coils cause i want the versatility of having a HB and SC guitar.
     
  9. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    the nut to crack is, what does "vintage sounding" mean to YOU?

    all the things you've typed about are subjective in many ways, so yer gonna get lots of opinions that will be coming from lots of directions.

    without a doubt, "vintage fender" means single coil transducers built on vulcanized fiberboard flatware with alnico (mostly number 5) rod magnets and 42awg (mostly) coil wire with varying types of insulation. then there's the coil wire turn count - to me, that IS the most important factor. ymmv.
     
  10. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    i was thinking of a different tact, instead of my take on vintage. whats everyone else's take on vintage?



    so far, to sum up where i think the tone on this guitar will rest.
    25.5 scale for "snappiness" single coils or similar for a more "light and cool" tone mahogany body, warm, and a little less bright, walnut stripe, varies from ash to mahogany in tonal coloration... ebony fretboard, should bring some highs back. Stoptail bridge, once again i hear it brings more highs to the table. Birch cap. Extremely dense (maple like tone?)
    using my rather naive'-simpleton view on this, this might be closer to a strat than expected, but my guess is the mids will be less pronounced. only one way to find out!

    as to the many opinions, well that was the plan :cool: from those opinions, hopefully a good decision will arise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  11. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    in the larger scheme of things, at gigging and recording volumes, imho the wood means squat. "tone" emmanates from yer brain and fingers (ever see a Really Good player move from his guitars to yours and he still sounds like, well, him), then it's the pickups and support electronics. the amalgam of the guitar *may* come into play at much lower bedroom volumes into a clean amo with little or no modulation.

    i already wrote about what is "fender vintage" - after the right materials and build, the key is in the coil wire turn count ... essentially - less for more treble and less midrange, more for less treble and more midrange. vintage fender single coils were all over the place with regards to turn counts.
     
  12. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    Got it, all other factors being the same, for a bright tone, less turns is more.
    oh, and i did see your take on vintage, sorry if it sounded like i was ignoring your statement, sometimes i think faster than i can type....:mad:
    thats for sure! anyone think the next "miracle tool" for guitar will be the "slowhand-hand"? "Get tone just like Clapton with the Slowhand hand, yours for just $19.99!" all we need now is a slowhand brain... anyone got a van, some strong guys with ski masks, and a brain surgeon? cmon, any takers? :D
     
  13. Derek Kiernan

    Derek Kiernan Friend of Leo's

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    Again, the Wilde pickups, especially the L200s, have an easy time getting clearer-than-vintage classic tones. You don't need a single coil to get "single coil tone".
     
  14. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    l-200's are the current top of my list, but the price point on the keystones almost makes me want to order a set of them as well, parts for the next caster any1? heheehe
     
  15. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    Alright, its down to the wire, i'm hoping to order these babys soon. going with the l200s and a q filter, just to try it out. however before i do, i have a question. make that 2...
    L200N
    L200M
    L298N
    L298M
    L298L
    whats the difference? i expect its neck, middle, and lead. but i really dont want to screw this up, hence why i'm asking.

    and how different are the keystones to the l200s? just curious if any1 has done a comparison, probs gonna try and order a set on the side, but if their really not different, then i see no need.
     
  16. Tele-phone man

    Tele-phone man Tele-Afflicted

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    N, M, and L do indeed mean Neck, Middle and Lead. The difference between neck and middle is the polepiece spacing. Bill uses a tempered spacing scheme so that his pickups will fit reasonably well with both modern and vintage bridges. The L200SL, if I'm not mistaken, has a bit more inductance than the L200SN or L200SM, but not as much as the L298 of any position. IOW, the L298 family is louder, darker and fatter than any of the corresponding L200 pups, which are designed to be similar to a vintage Strat or Tele pup. The L280 is a bit louder and brighter than the L200, but not as beefy as the L298. The L290 is like a L280 with more midrange, a tad less high-end, and a bit more output.

    The Keystone Tele pups probably most closely resemble the L200 in tone, but because they are a true single, rather than a stacked HB, the Keystones have a bit more output and bite. The Keystone Strat pups sounded fatter to my ear than the Keystone Teles. In fact, I preferred my L280 Strat pups to the Keystones just in terms of tone, never mind the noise. Of all of these pups that I've tried (Keystone Tele set, Keystone Strat set, L200SN, L200SM, L280SN, L280SM, L280SL, L280TN, L280TL, L290TL), I've settled on the L280 for all positions in both of my Teles (one of which has a Strat setup with a Tele bridge, the other is normal) and my Strat. I find the L280 had the best balance of bite, chime, and output, plus being noise-free.

    If you have the cash to buy more pickups than you need, the Keystone Tele set is really quite good for a true single coil. However, I've heard amazing things about the Microcoils, and I wonder why you are not considering them. My understanding is that they are true singles, but with far lower noise than most, and with stout output and super clear treble. I've not tried them, but many users say they are extremely versatile and are capable of vintage tone, as well as more modern tones.

    If any Micro-coil users read this, please correct me if I err.
     
  17. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    i have still been considering the micro coils, part of my issue is the full range of adjustment seems daunting, i could be working under false assumptions, but i've heard both the l280's and micro coils are Very temperamental in regards to adjustment. maybe i can dial in exactly what i'm after, but the sheer tonal range just seems daunting...
     
  18. eat myshorts

    eat myshorts TDPRI Member

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    Just for someone in the future, i found this clip.
    at 1:20 is where the very short comparison begins
    http://www.diystompboxes.com/sndz/L200_L280s.mp3

    to my ears they sound nearly identical, the first one sounds a little thinner than the second. further review must be done.

    "......when deciding which era of the Fender sound is the issue!

    Keeping the usual stock single coil wiring with 250K pots, many of our customers have described the L-280S as the early 60's Fender vibe while the L-200S leans into the 50's Fender direction. However, and why Bill selected the L-280S over the L-200S when he released them in 1996: the L-280S can sound like a L-200S with easy adjustments and wiring modifications, BUT the L-200S can NOT sound like a L-280S. One simple, yet effective, mod is changing the pots to 500K, and now your "soft P-90" L-280S will be more like the "twangy" L-200S!

    All the best,

    Becky" just when i had it all sorted....
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  19. Tele-phone man

    Tele-phone man Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't know where the idea that the L280 is hard to dial in came from. I read it a lot on this forum, but I didn't experience it. I had no trouble whatsoever setting them up, and I didn't find them to radically change in tone or output as I moved them up and down. I generally keep them a bit closer to the strings than Bill's suggested "nickle" method. I tend to play with a light touch, so I need my pickups to be somewhat closer than many other players do. I preferred the L280 to the L200 simply because the L280 has more bite and output, and my comparisons were apples to apples (on the same guitars through the same rigs in my hands.) I preferred the L280 to the L290 because the L290 had too much upper midrange and less clear treble.

    I'd love to try the microcoils and the L45S, but I need more guitars to do that.

    YMMV
     
  20. Tele-phone man

    Tele-phone man Tele-Afflicted

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    The only good thing about that clip is the playing before the comparison. Great player. The actual comparison is absolutely worthless. Do yourself a favor and stop listening to soundclips. Just stop, please. They tell you nothing useful.

    The biggest trouble with Bill's line of single-sized pickups is that they mostly all reside in the same ballpark. The distinctions between the L200, L280, L45, Microcoil and Keystone are rather subtle. They ALL have very clear treble, moderate output and fairly flat midrange. The L290 and L298, OTOH, are both louder, fatter and darker than the others, consistent with their higher inductance.
     
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