Simple, Cheap Pickup Winder

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by R. Stratenstein, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Wow!
    TDPRI-mates to the rescue (again!). My bad, I should have checked further when I saw that very odd cap value. :rolleyes:
    The diagram has the cap labeled 1 uF, while the parts list does indeed, show .1uF. Thanks to Rob and GN for the heads up, and for the info Guitarnut included from Premier Guitar.

    Rob, I've got a quite large stock of .1uF caps, but thanks for the kind offer. I remember going through my cap. bin thinking, "why the hell can't it be .1uF, I've got a ton of those?" If I'd only known! After reading through the Premier Guitar article, I may shoot for a middle value, what they call "woman tone" (a la Mr. Clapton, I assume), however, if the .1 gives me the classic 60's Strat tone, that's what I'm shooting at. This will be my surf guitar until I get that Jag built.

    Anyhoo, I obviously have a bit more soldering to do, or more accurately, un-soldering and soldering. Also, check out the next post. I'm making discoveries I am liking less and less as I perform surgery deeper and deeper into Mr. Stratenstein. . .

    Surf music it will be, Rob, but I'm afraid you can pot down the tap tone for a bit, I've got some more work to do on my patient. . . .:mad::rolleyes:
     
  2. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Mr. Stratenstein's Surgery

    Got started on what I thought was going to be a "drop-in", loaded pickguard mini project, and produce some great quacks to post this evening. Sometimes I think that Murphy's whole family lives here!

    Pulled off the tremolo. Looked it over for any signs of Fender markings. None. No markings whatsoever. Assume it's parts. Also noticed the whammy bar hole is kinda hogged out unevenly, so it may be parts married to parts. Oh, well.

    [​IMG][/IMG]


    Removed the screws that hold down the old pickguard. Bridge pup is a genuine Gibson HB, neck one is something else. Save em for the parts bin and some future project, yet to be conceived and named.

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Unsoldered the spring claw ground and jack leads from the controls, and removed the entire old pickguard. You can see the surgery done to make room for the humbuckers. It was at this point I started to worry that a stock Strat pickguard wouldn't cover up all the damage. Mostly, it wasn't a problem.

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    I removed the bathtub to make sure I had the jack leads properly identified. Strangely enough, it's shielded wire. But when I got the bathtub out, it was immediately apparent it's not Fender, either. Much too light gauge, and no markings of any kind. Another Oh, Well, but it's now struck me, gee was this thing ever a Fender, or just a partsenstein with an aftermarket body?

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Something else comes to my attention. When I first got the guitar, one of the things I noticed is that there were only 3 screws where there should have been 6, holding the tremolo bridge in place. These are "special" screws with long smooth shanks under the heads, on which the knife edge of the trem plate rocks. I figured the luthier had just been lazy, and didn't bother to replace all 6 screws, or they rolled off the bench and he couldn't find them, or whatever. I ordered up 6 of the correct screws from StewMac. But looking at the screw holes, it is very apparent the other 3 holes have NEVER had screws.

    Hmmm-to my mind, this is probably the ultimate proof that the guitar is a parts special, and was never even the Squier that the neck plate and SN on it would lead you to believe. (At least that's genuine Fender!--well, kinda--it's Squier :neutral:)

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Sharp eyes will also note an extra hole at the bottom of the photo. Further indication this is a parts baby, and something of a junk parts baby. I wasn't planning on buying a new bridge, especially not a genuine Fender one, but this bothers me a lot. Any suggestions for an aftermarket trem bridge that will fit, that won't break the bank?

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    The extra mounting hole isn't the only reason I want to replace the junk tremolo. The old pickguard had extended to the bottom of the trem, covering up a fairly large, obnoxious-looking hole there. Real strats' trems. cover this open area. I'll have an extra screwhole (from the old pickguard) to deal with, but I don't want to have that crappy looking hole next to the bridge. GRRR--this is getting annoying! I just wanted to drop in some strat pups, OK???:confused::confused:

    You can also see the wallowed-out hole for the whammy bar in this photo.

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Of course, Murphys not done with me yet. Again, evidence this was never a real Strat--the pick guard holes don't match up. Of course, with the pickguard being a Grizzly, it may not be correct, either, but overall, I've had good experience with most Grizzly stuff, so I suspect it's that the guitar was drilled for the old pickguard, and only the old pickguard, and never for a real Strat pickguard.


    [​IMG][/IMG]

    Finally, for the coup de grace, although I had not thought of it before, and should have, the neck, being a Harmony, and not a Fender Stratocaster, does not fit the pickguard. There is a slightly positive side to this, there is excessive material on the pickguard that needs to be removed, so I can get a somewhat snug fit around most of the neck, if I trim carefully. The not-so-great news is that there is some excessive clearance at the end of the neck that won't snug up to the pickguard. Oh, well. . . This has to be rectified, along with the pickguard holes, before I can do anything, and I suppose I may as well wait for the new tremolo bridge unit, and get 'er done all at the same time.

    [​IMG][/IMG]

    So the plan of action as it now stands is that I have to replace the tone roll-off cap, which was incorrectly spec'd on the Fender diagram as 1uF, instead of the correct .1uF. Small solder job, have parts.

    To more accurately line up the pickguard, drill mounting holes for it, and trim the pickguard for neck clearance, I'm going to have to "unload" the pickguard--what a waste of time! Remembering now that I bought the guitar because I liked the neck--little did I know at the time how right I was!

    Anyway, if someone has recommendations for a decent but not-too-expensive replacement trem bridge that will fit a Strat, please let me know. I have to assume the mounting holes (the small, unused ones) are the correct hole spacing and pattern.

    Strangely enough, I'm not bummed out or discouraged-I expected to have to do some work, not this much, but so be it. Maybe this means my pups will sound killer when I finally get some strings vibrating across them!

    Rick
     
  3. Muzikp

    Muzikp Friend of Leo's

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    Now that right there was a huge piece of missing info for me. I know it seems simple but I was sorta wondering how all that was done. Thank you Rob.
     
  4. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hey Rick,

    Usually if you are playing surf you want a bright cap like a .01. I believe Jags came with a .01 tone cap.

    Rob
     
  5. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Rob, Seeing as how this will be a Strat first, with surf guitar backup duties as a secondary and temporary assignment, I'm thinking I'll go with something along the .047uF persuasion, a little less piercing, especially seeing as how my pups are a bit on the low resistance side.

    Alternatively, I could just solder a socket into the front of the pickguard, and have a selection of caps to plug in for various occasions, including some nice Russian cold-war vintage paper ones, soaked in PCB-laced oil, and some hand-rolled caps, lovingly rolled, as the lore goes regarding fine cigars, between the soft thighs of young . . . . . oh, well, I suppose I'll just solder in the .047 and be happy with it. :eek:
     
  6. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    In fact, I did order the wire (from Remington) late in the day on Sept. 9. It got here today! 3 days. If the wire is half as good as their service, I'll be a very happy winder. (And the wire looks very good.) I'm impressed with Remington. $29 for 1 lb spool of solderable 42 GA. shipping included.
     
  7. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    More Simple, Accurate Count Trigger !!

    :idea:OK, some guys couldn't get the IR optosensor to work as a counter.

    Many, including Rob Barncaster, I believe are still using magnets and magnetic reed switches, at the least limiting the maximum winder speed, and at worst risking the dreaded, and deadly BOUNCE, a phenomena of mechanical (magnetic) switches pulling together and releasing in a "dirty" fashion, with vibrations at each closure and opening, which a fast counter can interpret as rotations, falsely increasing the rotation count.

    I've been researching info regarding gauss meters, and by default Hall Effect (magnetism) sensors. Suddenly, it occurred to me--Hall Effect sensors have been used since the 70's in automotive engines to----YES:!:--count revolutions of distributor shafts, crankshafts, camshafts, all manner of rotating machinery.

    So, it was a short step to realize that a unipolar, analog Hall-Effect switch, operating at low voltages 3-5-9v, etc. range, can provide a bounce-free output signal to something like a Cub counter, and work at any speed. Instead of reflected infrared light used by the QRD1114, the Hall effect sensor would trip each time a magnet mounted on the winder beam passed near it.

    I wish I'd thought of this before I installed my opto-sensor, it's slightly more simple, and of course, unaffected by ambient light. I can see how the circuit provided for the QRD1114 optoelectric sensor can be easily modified to use a Hall Effect device to trip a Cub counter. Hall effect devices are about the same cost $1.25--$2.00 or so, as the optosensors, and pretty much the same size and shape.

    If there are any winder builders still struggling with accurate rotation counters, this offers another option that is a little more stable and accurate than magnetic reed switches, and a bit simpler and potentially more accurate than optosensors.
    I may order up a couple of them and do some experimenting. Meanwhile, jimdkc, and the other clever electronic guys out there, what do you think? :?::?:
     
  8. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hey Rick,

    Why yes, GREAT idea! Hall Effect sensors are used on automotive distributors and are accurate to at least 6500 RPM. I think you may have a solution here. I bet it's cheaper than the Red Lion $118 optical sensor and as accurate. Mind if I build one in parallel to your project. I'm a little electronically illiterate. :oops:

    Rob
     
  9. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Rob, I'm a LOT electronically illiterate. But every so often, as the old saying goes, even a blind hog finds an acorn. I think this is pretty do-able, cheap and simple. I'll post what progress I make. OpenGCapo4 is coming over Sunday to wind a couple of P-90's and a Strat pup, so I'll wait until after that to go messing up my current counter which works well, but I want to see how well the Hall Effect idea works.

    What clued in my "brilliant" idea was that while surfing Mouser Electronics for Hall Effect sensors, I got into about page 399, and saw one that made me say, "Hey, that looks just like the camshaft position sensor I replaced in the Dodge a couple of years back", and danged if it wasn't. Then things just clicked into place. My lithium dose must have been just right then, unusually clear and cogent thinking~:cool:
     
  10. jimdkc

    jimdkc Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I've never used Hall Effect sensors... but... Yeah! That should work!
     
  11. jimdkc

    jimdkc Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Here's a possibility:

    Honeywell SS449R

    One of the few non-latching types I saw! Sells for a whopping 75¢. Activates on the presence of a South magnetic field.

    You could use a latching model, but you'd have to use 2 magnets: 1 to turn it on, and one of the reverse polarity to turn it off.
     
  12. R. Stratenstein

    R. Stratenstein Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Hey, Jim-- These things come in an array of confusing specifications. I ordered linear, analog, ratiometric SS49E's from Mouser to build my gauss meter. These pass voltage in proportion to the strength of the magnetic field they're sensing. +voltage for South Pole, - voltage for North pole (I may have that backwards.

    For counting revolutions, I ordered SS451A's also analog Hall Effect sensors, omnipolar (either pole will trip it), wide voltage range of operation ( 3-24 volts)
    capable of 1000 Hz operation. Seems like it should work.

    Question, since I'm planning on running it on the 5V power supply (wall-wart), should I use some resistors to knock down the voltage that the Cub will see to 3 volts?

    Here's a diagram of how I think it should work:

    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
  13. jimdkc

    jimdkc Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    No! If you look at a block diagram of the Hall effect sensor (this is from the datasheet for the Honeywell SS451A):

    [​IMG]

    It looks quite similar to this (which should look familiar!):

    [​IMG]

    It's the same kind of open-collector circuit.

    Good choice on the sensor, by the way! It's similar to the one I pointed out, but it's omnipolar (doesn't matter if the magnet is North or South!)
     
  14. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Hey Rick,

    I'd love to run that off of the DC power supply but as it's a 3 volt min does that mean it wouldn't count till I had the thing cranked up past 3VDC?

    Rob
     
  15. Bentley

    Bentley Friend of Leo's

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    The stratenstein looks a lot like my cheapo knockoff strat that I modded, and is now my go-to guitar.
     
  16. Glen Smith

    Glen Smith RIP

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    A quick question for the winder gurus: Would a switching power supply work to power a winder motor?
     
  17. Guitarnut

    Guitarnut Friend of Leo's

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    They're fine for motors and most other applications.

    There's a relationship between line voltage frequency and the size of the components used in a PS.

    If I remember correctly, the switching takes place on the primary side of the transformer with an in series MOSFET. Since this power transistor is capable of switching at 30Khz to 150Khz, this, in effect, increases the frequency of the line voltage and allows for smaller components...transformer and caps. The secondary side of the transformer is still full wave AC and is rectified to the required DC voltages. So, I don't think the load knows the difference.

    Linear PSs use stepped down voltages (120Vac stepped down to 24Vac) requiring larger components.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  18. Glen Smith

    Glen Smith RIP

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    OK, thanks GN. I will start a winder thread when I have received all my components.
     
  19. Barncaster

    Barncaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    Can't wait to see what you come with Glen!
     
  20. Guitarnut

    Guitarnut Friend of Leo's

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    Your -5V should be shown as 0v or just ground. I could be wrong but I'm thinking +5vdc to -5vdc is a 10 volt power supply.
     
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