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Sick bridge for a Tele build?

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by stratisfied, Oct 21, 2020.

  1. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Think of all the bass players and metal guitar players that mute the strings around the headstock and the guitar players that have long string distance between the bridge and tail piece that get that something extra in their tone.
    The nut and bridge set the vibration waves for the scale, but the strings core vibrates through to the stop piece and tuners into the body and neck just like the the nut and bridge does. When you pluck the strings between the nut and tuners or bridge and stop tail on models that have enough space, that sound will come through the pickups and amp. That's evidence in reverse.
     
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  2. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Some mini-piezo pickups in those tubes could offer something extra, but I'm with ya on the marketing hype.
    The baseplate looks like aluminum which would off a different tone from the usual metal. I like the design.
     
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  3. crazydave911

    crazydave911 Doctor of Teleocity

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    Depending on price and template I'd likely grind the crap off the bottom and use it normally :lol:
     
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  4. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

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    Again, I disagree. Your point only applies if those smaller lengths are free to vibrate, which they aren't in this case. The strings will be laying against the walls of the tube. Not only that, but they have to bend around the saddles, then again around the hole in the baseplate so they're even farther removed from the speaking length of the strings.
    The reason plucking those short lengths make a sound is that they induce vibrations in the speaking length but they still need to be able to move freely to do so.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  5. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

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    Piezos in the tube wall won't produce any sound, the string needs to be in tight contact with the piezo elements as it would be if breaking over the top as on a saddle and they need to be able to vibrate freely. The tubes don't give them that chance.
     
  6. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Wire in a coil of a pickup will vibrate even though they are tightly wrapped around a bobbin and sealed with wax. The string inside those ferrules may not be visibly vibrating, but the core inside the wound string will be vibrating. Can't pluck it to test it, but it happens on the other types of bridges and headstocks, so in theory it must happen here too? Tell ya what, if you happen to have a disc type piezo handy, you could attach it to the end of a string at either end and pluck the string to find out. I don't have any handy at the moment. My Strat-O-Rez guitar has a piezo under the bridge and works great.
     
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  7. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    The string ball-end will touch the end of the tube wall and make the tube wall vibrate. These vibrations would be very low on a meter(may not even show up) so whatever piezo used would need a preamp. Would be hard to determine if those vibrations would be coming from those tubes or coming from the saddle contacts to bridge in this scenario. A string stop piece that's separate from the bridge assembly would be better suited to test such a theory. Agree?
     
  8. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

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    Zep, Lumberg et al - as you both know, its impossible to "prove" any of these hypotheses. The effects of string after lengths have been argue for ever - its a big subject with bowed instruments people and archtop builder. We know that if the string is not touching anything that the tension will be exactly the same as the tension in the length between nut and saddle, otherwise it would move on the saddle. We know that if it is not touching anything it will vibrate with a frequency determined by exactly the same equation that determines the frequency of the main string (assuming it somehow gets plucked). We also know that the after length can influence the feel of the main part of the string - shorter lengths will feel stiffer because their is less length to stretch as you fret or bend. I'm just not convinced that you can create an experiment, or for that matter, a model, that demonstrates the effect of different lengths of string conclusively.

    The one concern I had with this design is that if the after length is allowed to vibrate and if it does contact the tube will that create any sort of buzzing sound? We don't worry about it when its passing thru a wooden telecaster body (maybe we should?) but I really don't like the thought of a metal string vibrating against the metal tube.

    Zoom in on the diagram at #6, they definitely show the string at an angle and touching the tube

    http://www.burnsguitars.com/BURNS_Custom Elite_INNER_HQ.pdf

    Otherwise I just think this whole bridge looks like one more way to hook the ends of strings to a guitar.
     
  9. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes, you're describing microphonics. The mechanism is different than what we're describing here though, it's caused by playing loud and inducing a vibration in the pickup itself from the sound waves. The more you pot a pickup and the deeper you let it penetrate into the coil, the less this happens because you're damping the windings.
    How would this be the case if it's been damped by breaking over the saddle, then again by breaking again over the through-hole, then again by contact with the tube wall? For all intents and purposes, by that time it really isn't vibrating measurably at all, no?
    The reason plucking behind the nut can be heard is because it induces vibrations in the speaking length of the strings where they ring out sympathetically with the section vibrating between the nut and peg. You know how when you're tuning up a new set of strings and the sound starts to "ring" more as you get your high E closer to pitch? It's because the harmonics on the other strings are starting to be vibrated by that E.
    Try plucking your G behind the nut; I'm assuming on a Tele headstock that's the longest free length of string on it if the B and E have a tree. It'll probably come through your amp noticeably. Try the same now with the B and E between the tree and peg: nothing, unless you really slam it hard enough to induce vibrations in the speaking length of the strings from moving the guit itself.
    Place a slide gently against the G at the first fret and pluck behind the nut; you probably won't hear anything in that case either.
    This is only twice now that we've damped and isolating sections of the string from the speaking length. Now we talk about it resting against the wall of a tube?
    I just gave my Cab Tele's G a pluck on the 1/4" or so between the saddle and the slot where it bends again to descend below the bridge. My 5W practice amp is dimed, and I heard nothing. If that section of string can't produce a noticeable sound, how then will it communicate over another bend to a section of string below it?
    You'd tear the element apart doing that before you'd get enough pressure to register on the piezo, but getting to the point I highlighted..
    I have an LR Baggs Powerbridge on one of my Gretsches, and yes, it works great. The P-Bridge puts the piezo elements directly in the saddles themselves under inserts the string rests on so they can sense their vibrations. Systems I've installed in acoustic guitars place the elements under the saddle entirely to achieve the same effect, but in both cases, there is a direct downforce of several pounds on the piezo elements caused by the strings breaking over the saddle, and the piezo elements are detecting the tiny changes in pressure as it vibrates. In the hypothetical you propose, what would cause that downforce? On the Gretsch I mentioned, I played the high piercing notes at the end of "Space Oddity" at a jam by plucking behind the bridge on the high E and giving it a bend to take it up to pitch, but again, it was still in direct contact with the piezo saddle; it wasn't decoupled from it twice and then contacting the wall of a tube.
    One experiment you can try is to detune a string while playing through the piezo system. I'm willing to bet it'll cut out even before the string gets very loose because of the lack of downforce.
    Embedded in wood? That would further damp any remaining vibrations that still managed to make it through the chain of bends and contact that I already mentioned. Which, I truly do not believe would be any because of how many times it's removed and damped from the speaking length of the string.
    Piezo elements already produce less voltage than mags, but you say the vibrations "may not even show up." What then, is there, to amplify?
    I'm not sure where you're envisioning putting the stop piece or piezo elements, but if it's anything like what I already mentioned playing the last few notes of "Space Oddity" the section between the saddle and stop piece was still in direct contact with the element and so it did sound. There's also a good 3 1/2 or 4 inches between the two so there was enough to vibrate freely, which isn't the case with that 1/4" or less I mentioned before.
     
  10. Mr. Lumbergh

    Mr. Lumbergh Poster Extraordinaire

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    We're having a gentlemanly discussion, I'm not mad and I don't think Zep is either, we're just discussing why we differ.
    I think I did provide a couple of things to try that I think show that by the time you've gotten to the ball end, the string really isn't moving, and I think my position is well-reasoned.
    The burden of proof is on Burns to back up the claims they make. A lot of players are constantly chasing little things that they think will improve their sound, and if people are willing to lay their coin down on something, even if it doesn't make a difference or make the difference claimed, sellers are willing to give it to them.
    That bridge does look retro cool and I like the sound of Burns pickups but I simply do not see a way the tubes do anything, and the more I look at it from different angles the less likelihood of it I see.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  11. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Location location location for real estate.

    Cosmetics cosmetics cosmetics for this cool looking piece of hardware!
     
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  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    The string vibrating inside a metal tube isn't much different than what happens in a tremolo Strat except the tubes are in a block of metal instead of each tube attached to a plate. Both will transfer vibrations. The product in this case just has ferrule tubes molded into the attached plate. Would be hard to separate the influence of the ferrule tubes from the saddles on the same plate.
     
  13. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

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    If you noticed, they did have a tremolo version of this thing that has the tubes instead of the block (the link I gave above). A whole different way of doing the spring and pivot, since I don't like trems I didn't pay much attention. Looks like it would take its own route too, different from fender or floyd or any of the others

    Here is what they say

    The Unique Rez-o-tube ® System is fitted with six individual sustain tubes. This design feature allows each string to vibrate at its own natural frequency and give a richer overall tone. The lightweight duralamin construction ensures that you will gain a more natural woody tone. Each guitar string is fitted by inserting the string from the back of the guitar through each separate tube.
     
  14. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    I fail to see how you could get that woody tone when the strings would contact metallic tubes attached to a metallic bridge system and not having wood between the string ferrules and bridge like a traditional setup. My bet is that this particular system would offer more of a Lap Steel tone.
     
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