Shrill sound: Maple neck?

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Billycaster21, Jul 11, 2021.

  1. Bob J

    Bob J Tele-Holic

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    Years ago Bicycling magazine did a blind comparison of steel tubing. This was when Tange Prestige tubing just came out, and they wanted to compare to the "standard" of the day (Columbus SL). They hired one of the best frame builders of the time (Bruce Gordon) to build identical frames (same geometry, same lugs) and paint them different colors to tell them apart. The two frames were assembled into bikes using identical components, and a panel of experts test rode both bikes over many miles and under a variety of conditions. After hours of comparison and discussion, they concluded that the pink bike felt faster, stiffer, more resilient, more comfortable and lighter, so it must be the new frame tubing. They contacted Bruce, and he told them the Pink bike was built with the Columbus SL (the old "standard") and the blue bike was built with Tange Prestige (the opposite of what they had all concluded).

    Eventually they decided that the color might have had more influence on their conclusions than they had initially considered!

    The variables in materials found when building steel road bikes are far smaller than those found when working with wood, so my question is, what colors are the 2 guitars in question?

    Photos please!

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate about wood's contribution to tone in an electric guitar!
     
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  2. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Afflicted

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    Not my fault that you ain't got the ears.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  3. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Afflicted

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    I can't actually discern that it's steel in a Tele bridge. But I do hear a difference. Because of the size and mass of a Tele bridge, the bridge position is "bigger" sounding. This is all just sounds so hard to explain in words. I don't necessarily believe this, but some Tele purists prefer the 3 saddle bridges instead of 6 saddle bridges because they believe the 3 saddle bridge results in a "better" sound. For me, the 6 saddle bridges sound fine. Guitar players are a picky lot.
     
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  4. Sax-son

    Sax-son Tele-Afflicted

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    I like both the 6 and 3 saddle bridges for different reasons. They all have their pro's and con's.
     
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  5. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Afflicted

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    Did you change from a 6 saddle modern to a 3 saddle vintage style?
     
  6. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Great! I'm glad you, the OP, got it sorted. And it was a hardware issue which shows all things that make up a guitar contribute to it's sound.

    If it's still a bit bright for you, you may want to change the tone cap to a .1 to darken things up a bit.

    And for all you electronic guys that think that's all that matters, we wouldn't have to make changes to those electronics and pickups if the body/neck/hardware didn't make a difference!
     
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  7. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Your whole post contradicts itself. If the WOOD *Really* didn't matter, then how the wood is attached wouldn't matter would it? Vibrations through the wood neck to the wood body matters. Helps the string vibrations with sustain(how ever much there is) and the pickups respond by converting to signal the makeup of the hardware and the tone of the body and neck.
     
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  8. hepular

    hepular Tele-Afflicted

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    Huh? Pickups respond to magnetic variations induced by vibrating strings by producing millivoltages of electric current. HOW would they "sense" acoustic vibrations?
     
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  9. ctmullins

    ctmullins Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    Because both the magnetic variations and the acoustic vibrations are being produced by the same vibrating string. If you were to plot the disturbance in the magnetic field over time, and overlay that on a plot of the acoustic signal over time, they would coincide (after perhaps adjusting for amplitude).

    To put this another way, qualitatively - if a guitar sounds like crap unamplified, then the pickups and electronics will have to somehow compensate for that, or else they will produce an electric version of that same crappy sound. If the guitar already sounds good, then the pickups don’t have to compensate, and can instead be designed to faithfully reproduce what the strings are doing.
     
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  10. hepular

    hepular Tele-Afflicted

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    wrt to bikes: it gets worse: when Josh Poertner was at Zipp (he owns Silca now), they would do a whole buncha testing of various wheels and frames & the result was that unless a rider KNEW what frame they were riding, the rider's ability to determine the difference between a "stiff" aero frame and a comfort frame was nil. tire pressure they could usually figure out.

    but even there, the old common sense (20-23mm section tires at 120 psi), which came from track racing, was proven to be bs on the road: the 'squishier' 25-28mm tires at 75-80 psi were always actually faster over actual pavement because they weren't bouncing around but were absorbing the pavement irregularities.

    now, wrt to wood and electric guitars: my guess is that wood affects tone in a solic-body electric by damping freqeuncies--so, paradoxically, the more resonant a guitar is acoustically, the less effective (in an absolute sense) it will be at inducing electromagnetic signal in the frequencies the wood responds to.
     
  11. maggieo

    maggieo Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    It probably has more to do with sample variation in the pots. Even though CTS is good about cherry-picking the pots with the tightest tolerances, there's going to be discrepancies from pot to pot, same goes with caps and switches.
     
  12. hepular

    hepular Tele-Afflicted

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    the strings are doing 2 related but separate things in an electric guitar: driving electromagnetic flux and acoustic vibrations. a pickup that is too responsive to acoustic vibrations feeds back.
     
  13. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Microphonics.
     
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  14. nickmsmith

    nickmsmith Tele-Holic

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    I did. It was the MIM standard bridge, to a 3 saddle brass vintage style.
     
  15. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Tele-Afflicted

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    The majority of the difference in sound was going from a modern style to a vintage style. If you had gone from a vintage style 6 saddle bridge to a 3 saddle vintage style bridge the differences would have been fairly minor.

    When you play with a full band do you notice a difference in the "Out the amp" sound or do you mostly notice the difference at home playing clean by yourself?
     
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  16. surfco

    surfco Tele-Afflicted

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    Very moronic to think the wood makes a guitar sound "shrill"
     
  17. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Afflicted

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    Really? Anonymously over the internet.

    Very crude to call people morons, no matter how you do it.
     
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  18. ctmullins

    ctmullins Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    Exactly. And the variation in magnetic flux is identical to (or exactly proportional to) the variation in acoustic waves.

    This assumes that the pickup is held rigidly while the string is vibrating, which may or may not be completely true, but should be essentially true for any well-made electric guitar.

    Yes, but this removes the string entirely from the discussion, and is therefore not relevant. Not desirable, but also not relevant.
     
  19. Zepfan

    Zepfan Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Billycaster21

    Billycaster21 TDPRI Member

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