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Should I put old caps back in?

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by Achysklic, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. Achysklic

    Achysklic Tele-Afflicted

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    I have a great 72 Super Reverb. The filter caps have ben replace, it has been blackfaced. But 8 other caps were changed and the Orginal blue ones removed.

    They seem in great shape the person I got amp from gave them to me. I just dont see why he removed them. Isnt it best to leave them in.

    So, so I leave it as is or put the originals back in?

    Here is the ones he took out.
     

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  2. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    If the poor thing works and it sounds good, leave it be.
     
  3. VinceM

    VinceM TDPRI Member

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    It's my understanding that the blue "molded" caps should NOT be replaced unless they are completely bad. According to vintage amp folk lore, those caps have a lot of mojo.
     
  4. Achysklic

    Achysklic Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes it sounds good, however, I have heard the original caps sound better...they look in great shape. I heard the are not like filter caps that need replaced thes should last forever.
     
  5. Little Jay

    Little Jay Tele-Meister

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    I take it that you bought the amp already with the newer caps and you haven't heared what it sounded like with the old ones? You will never know if the amp sounded better with the old caps if you don't put them back. You can just put them back and might a) like it a lot, or b) find out why they were changed in the first place (and then you can always put the newer ones back).

    But those Paktrons don't have the same reputation as the Mallory Blue molded caps.
     
  6. steve p

    steve p TDPRI Member

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    If it was my amp and it sounded good, I would keep the new caps in but hang on to the originals as a new owner might want them if I decided to sell it in the future. Putting them back in the amp just increases the odds of poor solder joints.
     
  7. Achysklic

    Achysklic Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah, the previous owner replaced them so I dont know what the old ones sounded like.

    He did put pretty good replacements in. F&t on filter caps, and a combo of F&t, yellow Mallory, and some white ones I cant see the name on.
     
  8. Achysklic

    Achysklic Tele-Afflicted

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    Here is what some of the new caps look like.
     

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  9. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Alot of guys replace all the caps in silverfaces it's even recommended by a few "gurus" in the books they've written.
    Sure those aren't the same blue caps as the blackfaces had but they've always sounded good to me so I leave them. And if I had your amp and it sounds good I'd just leave the new ones in it.
     
  10. voodoo_idol

    voodoo_idol Friend of Leo's

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    No. Some amp repair zen from Roy Blankenship (capacitor replacement discussion from 6:15-7:50).

     
  11. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Roys talking about electrolytic caps right there specificly the filter caps THOSE NEED TO BE CHANGED on old amps. They're kind of like car batterys and they go bad with time wheather they get used or not.

    The nonelectrolytic caps are a another matter altogether.
     
  12. DADGAD

    DADGAD Friend of Leo's

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    Another vote to put the blue caps back in.
     
  13. telex76

    telex76 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I would have left the old blue caps in, but those in your pic aren't the "holy grail" blue caps, so if your amp sounds good I'd leave it be.
    Keep the old ones to go with amp if you ever sell it.
     
  14. voodoo_idol

    voodoo_idol Friend of Leo's

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    Point taken, but I mentioned that portion more for Roy's philosophy on keeping things original, not for the type of capacitor being discussed at that moment. In context, he was obviously referring to all types of components, not just filter caps. [Pretty sure I have some old tone and coupling caps returned to me by Roy.]

    It's not hard to believe that 42 year old film caps that had 20% tolerance when new could test out of spec for the circuit. One would hope they were replaced for a reason. That being said, not sure what the fact that nine of them were replaced means - maybe the amp tech was just replacing them for the heck of it, or perhaps the amp had been abused a bit. Either way, they're out now, so why spend the money to put old caps back in? Unless one believes that certain types of caps had "mojo" (I don't).
     
  15. andyfromdenver

    andyfromdenver Friend of Leo's

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    Probably more trouble than it's worth to put em back. Perhaps something was leaking DC and rather than find the issue or swap one and test, he or she just went wholesale.
    Just keep em in a little Baggie for resale.
     
  16. roberts67

    roberts67 TDPRI Member

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  17. SamClemons

    SamClemons Poster Extraordinaire

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    I would not have removed them, but would not go to the trouble to put them back in. I doubt you will hear any improvement and in the process, might damage something.
     
  18. DADGAD

    DADGAD Friend of Leo's

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    Forget my last post. Those horrible blue caps should be properly disposed of. Please send them to me.
     
  19. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Like Bobby says those aren't the "blue" caps they're talkin' about.

    The "blue" caps guys get all misty eyed over are the earlier ones in BF amps and some early silverfaces. The rule of thumb is tread lightly with blue caps and cloth wiring. '60s Fender amps are from the "Golden Era" for good reason. The wiring is a little tidier and the parts are better. Lotta music has been made with those amps. There's a lot more still in there.

    I've seen some really dumb stuff in '60s and '70s Fenders like all the film caps replaced yet all the original electrolytics in place. Electrolytics especially the white Mallory caps Fender used in the '60s and early '70s have a sharply penciled "sell by" date.


    It's clear from the pics those caps are '70s Paktron. They're nothing special. Lotta guys hype the value of those until it comes time to pay. Then no one is reachin' for their wallets.

    They may have value as "original parts" while they're in the amp. That value goes away IMO when you take 'em out. They're not on the short list of "desirable" capacitors. (Bumblebees, Astrons, Mustards, Blues)



    The black tubular caps in the pics are STKs. I've heard the STK story in bits 'n' pieces. I'm not sure if they're still in business. It seems they made mountains of .0083, .022 and .083 caps around '98 and dumped them on the surplus market. STK .022s were available in vast quantities for pennies each. The stash was quickly divvied up. I still have a couple baggies of STKs. Prices gradually crept up as supplies dwindled. Performance- wise they're supposed to be like paper in oils but that's an unsubstantiated claim.

    That's up to you. The black STKs seem to be .083s as per your pic. That's 20% low compared to the original .1 Paktrons. Having said that the amp might sound better with the new STKs in there. It's difficult to A / B. Play it with STKs in there. Take an hour to change it. How is your memory?




    Today's Op Ed on the "all original parts and untouched solder joints" thing:

    I'm a hot rodder as in hot rod cars. I've always been a hot rodder. The point is not just to make cars go faster, it's to make them go around corners better, to make them stop better, to make them more comfortable and lately to make them more economical. I was at what used to be the premier Model A restorer in New Jersey yesterday. They have a bunch of '70s Corvettes and a '67 Toronado out front now. Time marches on...

    It was about a five hour drive back home. In the rain. I'm glad I didn't have to do it in a perfectly restored Model A. I wouldn't want to do that drive on skinny bias ply tires in an underpowered car with drum brakes. It seems there are a lot of idiots on the road who have seen all the "Fast and Furious" movies. They're probably playing video games on their phones or texting with their thumbs as they weave in and out of traffic. :rolleyes:

    Where do all those frantic people have an urgent need to be on Sunday? :rolleyes:

    There is an outfit that manufactures a complete hot- rod rolling chassis for antique Ford Model As. The technology is mostly '70s and '80s with a Mustang II front end, a Ford 9" rear and motor mounts in place for a Ford V8 and automatic transmission. It's not a big deal to unbolt a perfectly restored Model A body from its original frame and plop it on a hot rod frame. It's called a "resto- rod". It looks like an antique car but it drives like a restored '60s or '70s muscle car.

    It's not that big a stretch to apply the same concepts to old tube amps. The "untouched solder joints and all original parts" thing is ridiculous. How would you like to drive a muscle car that still has the original 40- 50 year old rock hard flat spotted bias ply tires? The original points ignition with the original dried out spark plug wires? How 'bout the original gas and oil while we're at it?

    That's what it's like "driving" a 50 year old amp with "untouched solder joints and all original parts." It's like drivin' back from New Jersey with drum brakes and weather cracked bias ply tires. In the rain. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  20. BiggerJohn

    BiggerJohn Friend of Leo's

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    You cant tell the condition of a cap by just looking at it.
     
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