Shin's Music Dumbloid

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by csapo, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. D.Allen

    D.Allen Tele-Holic Vendor Member

    Posts:
    527
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I do not make a dime from these I am not a dealer for this pedal. I do find it to be a well designed pedal that has certain properties that I like personally. I am surprised there are not more demo videos of this and I hope that Shin's will be able to produce more and maybe lower the price. I sell pickups and if having a cool pedal will bring folks to listen it would be a benefit to me I guess, so if that is what you mean then yes I am guilty of having an interest to have cool relevant new pedals to have people listen to hear my pickups. And I will be launching some of my own pedals this year as well so I am interested in watching how the market reacts to different pedals launches. This particular pedal seems steeped in controversy and it is interesting to learn from watching what people say, do and how they react.
     
  2. rogthefrog

    rogthefrog Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    225
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    CJ also apologized for letting himself get roped into the TS-cloning scam, stopped building pedals, donated the CJOD money to charity, and exposed Landgraff for what it is, namely an overpriced TS clone, just like his was. CJ is ok in my book.

    References:

    http://revolutiondeux.blogspot.com/2008/03/clay-jones-od-grandlaff-dynnamic.html

    http://mrmisse.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=print&thread=2993
     
  3. cousinpaul

    cousinpaul Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,168
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    I spent a half hour or so with one of these last week. It's not a Zen Drive. There's absolutely no change in the HP filter when moving the "accent" control. Accent and Tone are obviously tied together; one defeating the other when either is set to zero. I'm thinking the tone shaping might be something similar to the tone control/treble-boost trimpot matrix on the Prince of Tone.

    It's also one of the loudest pedals I've ever heard with unity gain very low on the dial and the level control is extremely touchy in that range. This seems to confirm LED clipping diodes. It takes a lot of signal to get the high-gain sounds the Dumbloid is capable of with LED's. They are the only reason I can think of for building something so damn loud.
     
  4. Iago

    Iago Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,036
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Location:
    Brazil
    So you opened it up and checked the circuit or you make this statement based purely on "ears"?
     
  5. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,919
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    I'm not passing judgement on CJ one way or the other. I like that he took the trouble to trace out the Dano Tuna Melt, and stuff like that.

    I'm talking about how these things take on a mythological status of their own that IMO is rarely (most would say never) deserved.

    In the case of the CJOD, it's interesting that there are two other pedals that are the same thing - swirly painted box, gooped board, and high price tag.

    ...So the Dumbloid IMO is most likely something similar, minus the swirly painted box. But the little prototyper's board is there, as is the goop, as is a sort of "extremely homemade" look to it. Throw in that it's supposed to sound like a "D" amp, and it's almost like a sort of cookbook way to get folks who IMO ought to know better to throw crazy money at it.

    And - even after it's degooped/traced/replicated, the price is still high for the cloned version, IMO. But people will pay it...
     
  6. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,862
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Location:
    Santa Barbara, California
    This has been yet another enlightening thread, especially thanks to 11 Gauge as usual. Caveat emptor, indeed!

    Only a few comments to add--

    1) "Bloom"-- I once got to play a vintage Dumble amp, plugged straight in and turned it up. There was definitely something pretty amazing about it...I guess you could call it bloom. Sort of the opposite of sag? The closest I have come to a somewhat similar bloom was just messing around with stacking two OD pedals, both set pretty mild, going into a Victoria tube amp set close to break up-- ending up with a rig that was very sensitive to your fingers, and the notes had a sustain that builded nicely. Mind you, just plugged straight into the Victoria is really sweet too, but you have to crank it up a lot more to get a similar feeling.

    2) I don't buy pedals based on other musicians using them, either. But I occasionally look at the "rig rundown" of a player I like. For example, Dan Auerbach of Black Keys uses a Boss Super Shifter to get this cool effect on one of his songs that I was struggling to get just using my tremolo bar. When looking at Rig Rundowns, it is amazing how many top players are perfectly happy to use Boss pedals, unmodified. For example, Dan Auerbach uses a Boss phase shifter and a Boss tremolo-- stock. Yes, he uses a bunch of old obscure fuzz boxes, too. But the lesson here is that if we did copy our idols we would probably end up with a whole lot of Boss pedals, actually.

    3) There are pedals that really are meant to be amps-in-a-box, and they usually are quite different in design than a typical stomp box. Anything running on 9V with just two or three knobs in a small enclosure already has me dang suspicious since most known amp emulators need a lot more real estate and a lot more complex circuitry to reproduce the circuitry of a typical tube amp design, unless they are using surface mount components (mini-circuitry) or digital approaches.

    4) Lots of pedals at certain settings do hijack your tone and take it over, for better or worse depending on what you want. I recently noticed how Joe Bonamassa's tone seems pretty darn consistent even though he is now using Dumbles as well as his Marshalls, when before he just used Marshalls. But I am not surprised because so much of his tone is defined by his pedal board-- his Fuzz Face and other heavy flavoring pedals that are in his signal chain. So that maybe his Dumbles are pretty much a waste of money, really, or just eye candy for him and the guitar geeks in the audience. Similarly, Dan Auerbach runs 3 amps at the same time-- a Marshall, a Twin Reverb, and a double Deluxe (two deluxe tweeds in one), all of them turned up loud. But he also pretty much lives and dies by his fuzz boxes so most likely he could just use the Marshall or the Twin and only cork sniffers would notice much difference. Put it another way. If you plug straight into your amp, the amp you use matters a whole lot. If you go through a pedal board with pedals that have a big effect on tone, then the role of your amp in defining your tone diminishes considerably.

    5) I love pedals, but I also love not getting ripped off. I'm glad I use this site, have built pedals on my own, and have figured some stuff out-- and I feel sorry for folks that are getting taken for a ride. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted.
     
  7. backalleyblues

    backalleyblues Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,163
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL, USA
    Someone traced out the Tuna Melt? Is it similar to anything out there, circuit-wise?

    Mods, feel free to split this off into a separate thread if need be... a Tuna Melt in a proper case is pretty much my ideal tremolo!

    Franc Robert
     
  8. cousinpaul

    cousinpaul Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,168
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    Just ears and playing around with the controls. I guess we'll see how good my ears are if it ever gets traced.
     
  9. bloomz

    bloomz Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    904
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    Somebody's Mom's house
    Loving my Big Bloom. Way glad the price was made more accessible.

    I don't care in the slightest what it's a copy of or that it's a clone, just thinking of it musically, which is why I got it.

    I took a bit of a chance that it sounded better than the demos I heard of the Dumbloid, since it was recommended to me by an actual owner.

    He was way right. Way.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  10. Gnobuddy

    Gnobuddy Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,776
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Location:
    British Columbia
    Amen to everything above.

    All electrons are identical. The electrons in a scrap of tarnished tuna-can are exactly the same as the electrons in polished 99.999% pure gold. Therefore "oxygen free single crystal copper" doesn't sound any better than cheap lamp cord, nor does magic "Mogami wire". Gold plated connectors don't sound any different than tarnished copper, though they may last longer before corroding.

    As far as a capacitor goes, an insulator (dielectric) is pretty much an insulator. Yes, all insulators have minor imperfections, some more than others, but not one of them is so bad that its imperfections are audible, even in a hi-fi amp, never mind guitar electronics. Cheap ceramic disc caps can be microphonic and will make a nice "thump" if you flick one with a finger when it's connected to a high gain amp - but the cure is simple, don't flick it with a finger, and it will be dead quiet and work as well as the most expensive cap you can find! :D

    I like metal film resistors because they are quiet and durable (http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278251), and these days there is really no cost penalty for using them over carbon-film. As for hissy, unstable carbon composition resistors, I'll leave where they belong, 50 to 70 years in the past. :D

    I had the luxury of studying physics and audio electronics before entering the woo-woo / juju / mojo / magic filled world of music electronics. It's been quite baffling to encounter some of the weird and completely false beliefs some musicians (and some audiophiles) have about electronic components and circuitry. It's particularly weird to me that many of these beliefs continue to survive and be passed around even though it would be extraordinarily easy to disprove them.

    For instance: you say paper-in-oil caps sound better than ten-cent ceramic caps? Here's an easy test: set up an AF generator to drive one PIO and one ceramic cap with a sine wave somewhere in the guitar's range of frequencies, with the other end of each cap going into one input of a differential amp. If necessary add one variable resistor from each amp input to ground, and adjust its value to make sure both RC time constants are identical, to balance out any tiny difference in capacitance values (i.e one "0.01uF" cap may have a few percent more or less capacitance than another "0.01uF" cap, so we have to eliminate that from affecting our results, leaving only the effects of any magic mojo.)

    If the caps are identical, you'll get a very weak (inaudible) audio output out of the differential amp (because the difference of two identical signals is zero). If, on the other hand, one cap has some magic mojo "sound" of its own and the other does not, then subtracting one signal from the other will leave a substantial difference signal, which you'll see at the output of your differential amp.

    I tried this many years ago at a previous job with a fistful of different caps and a two-channel oscilloscope set to "difference of two channels" mode. I tried one or two values of the ceramic disc, polyester film, polycarbonate, even electrolytic caps that I could find in our engineering stockroom.

    The results at normal audio frequencies? Negligible (and completely inaudible) differences between the different types of caps. All the caps behaved virtually identically, within experimental error, as long as they had the same capacitance value.

    Not that logic or experiment will make any difference to the True Believer with his expensive paper-in-oil caps. But at least knowing that there are no magic caps might save someone who's on the fence from wasting money on overpriced "premium" caps that are, in fact, not premium at all.

    -Gnobuddy
     
  11. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,919
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    I had the opportunity of a good science education in grade school, which included physics during the same year as my first electronics class. I also had more than sufficient math skills to be able to crunch out numbers without the aid of plugging things into a web page widget that does it all for you. And the electronics program was two years total, and not just limited to a semester, like might be found at the upper academic level.

    I was already playing guitar by that time, and tinkering with all sorts of electronics in my personal time, but like you - none of it was with an exposure to "coveting components" or anything like that. If anything, components selected were for the purpose of functionality.

    IMO/IME, this is how effects were designed early on, and obviously for a good long time. And the bigger companies still haven't succumbed to the premium component thing, at least not most of them. Even popular "boutique/once boutique" companies like Fulltone still use regular carbon films and "Xicon greenies" in their stuff - I have yet to hear a complaint about that.

    For me, choosing a "premium capacitor" is done more for practical reasons - 5% tolerance or better where filters require a bit of precision, 3mm/5mm lead spacing even for bigger capacitances for consistency, and the box caps are easy to insert/remove "like a dentist." But the monolithic multilayers have the box films beat in most instances - the radial-types also have either 3mm/5mm spacing for 5pF up to over 1uF, or you can get them in axial-types, and design a layout that has caps & resistors placed in a similar fashion. The practicality in that instance is one of vertical space savings (and lateral/horizontal spacing, too).

    ...And like metal film resistors, there are now sources that have the metalized-film types of caps for not much more than "the wretched greenies."

    I've gotten into (hopefully civilized) arguments with folks who use silver mica caps that I really thought should have known better. I challenged them to take me up on A/B testing with ceramic disks, and none would do it. Oh well.
     
  12. Old Bill

    Old Bill Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    656
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Location:
    Hartlepool, UK.
  13. MASONish

    MASONish Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    709
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    WNC Mountains
    I'll gladly take that bet Keith! You care to put your money where your mouth is?
    I've been rocking this thing for almost a year. Haven't found anything remotely close to it. Does it for me. Of course YMMV
     
  14. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,919
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2003
    Location:
    Near BWI Int'l
    Yes, I will. Since I said a year or two, do you care to make it two? That way, it will be a "certain thing."

    And when I say playing one, I mean as in still gushing over it like in the honeymoon period, like it hasn't been eclipsed by whatever comes along at the end of two years, or in between.

    How are you willing to set out proof positive? As much as I'd like to take your word, I'll need a little more than that. Bill of sale, dated pics with it on the pedalboard, some kind of log of it being used regularly on gigs as opposed to "something else."

    So if you've got the proof that it's "the grail beyond all others" for a solid 24 months, I will pony up.

    But this can't be some kind of trivial "I come home every night and diddle around with it in my living room vs. my 20 other D-style pedals," or some other sort of "diary of a rock n roll dentist/lawyer" scenario. :lol:

    If it's going to come down to a wager, it needs to be framed in a serious context. Otherwise, it's a waste of time, and a sucker bet. But I'm hoping you wouldn't throw down the glove w/o already having considered that.
     
  15. schenkadere

    schenkadere Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    53
    Posts:
    4,646
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Location:
    NY
    Here's the Pete Thorn demo:

     
  16. Guitarmang6730

    Guitarmang6730 Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    206
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2011
    Location:
    Duarte California
    So how long do you think it will be until EHX makes a clone of this and sells it for $59 haha
     
  17. JHVH!

    JHVH! Banned

    Posts:
    866
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Location:
    east
    Mmmm, some stinky stuff goin' on 'round hyah.
     
  18. cousinpaul

    cousinpaul Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,168
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Location:
    Nashville TN
    As I mentioned earlier, I had a chance to spend some time with a Dumbloid at Vintage King Audio in Nashville. Some nice folks! Pete's demo does a good job of conveying what it sounds like. I'm still not hearing much of what I'd consider "Dumble" tones from it. IMO, it might just have well been named the Plexoid. Nevertheless, I see it as fitting in well with the MXR FET Driver, Dover Drive and some of the other big, hairy OD's that have been offered this year. I'll hold the comments on the circuit in abeyance until it's officially degooped and traced.

    Anyone interested in a Dumble pedal might also want to check out the Mojohand DMBL. Mike Hermans' demo sounds great and is much closer to the "D" tones I might have in mind.
     
  19. artdecade

    artdecade Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,013
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Location:
    Twangsylvania
    Dumble.
     
  20. Iago

    Iago Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,036
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Location:
    Brazil
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.