Shim the Neck or Cut the Intonation Screws? Or Nothing?

[Slim Chance]

Stock saddles

 

[Freeman Keller]

I agree with Telemnemonics, that heel should be tight against the bottom of the pocket. The pocket should be 5/8 (0.625 deep, flat on the bottom and level with respect to the top. The neck heel should be 3/4 thick to the bottom of the fretboard, which should be 1/4 at the center. That makess he neck 1 inch at the center (in one of your pictures it looks a whole lot thicker than that.

The result is the center of the fretboard should stand proud of the body by 3/8 inch, fret crowns are 0.035 to 0.045 more.

The holes in the body should have sufficient clearance such that the threads are not engaged in the body. The major diameter of the of a #8 screw is 3/32, just run that size bit or maybe 7/64 thru the holes to make sure they are not binding the screw.

I'll show one more picture of the bridge on one of my guitars showing that you don't have to have it cranked to the heavens to get good playable action. This guitar has 0.060 to 0.080 action , 0.005 relief, 0.012 to 0.016 first fret action and is perfecly intonated. I suppose that if you lay your palm on the saddles the screws might bother you - it doesn't me and if so you can always buy some shorter 4-40 set screws at a hardware store.

 

[Boreas]

I can't see buying the Stew Mac shims for $50.00.

StewMac shims are $12.09 each. But there are other brands of tapered wooden shims that are cheaper on Ammyzon. While you are fiddling around trying to find the right angle, I would just use card stock until you find the angle you like.

 

[bender66]

If it hasnt been said, make sure you clean up the heel screw holes on the neck too. They can leave a protruding lip when drilled.

I had a inexpensive tele that I couldnt get the neck seated. I drilled slightly deeper into the neck heel and cleaned up the the body for the screws. All was good after.

I bought some inexpensive brass neck shims in various thickness' from aliexpress for a couple bucks. I'd love to be able to make my own wood shims but dont have the tools. I wouldn't spend that amount at stewmac either.

Good luck.

 

[Slim Chance]

UPDATE

Today I installed a shim made from a 0.019 thick business card that I placed at the top of the neck pocket. It's is about 0.6" deep, extending just below the top pair of body screws. After making the necessary adjustments, the saddles are lower and the intonation screws now sit below the strings. The relief is 0.006 and the action is 0.0625-0.078" for all strings. I lowered both pickups to Fender spec - 0.078" bass and 0.0625" treble. After listening to the guitar for a bit, I ended up lowering the neck pickup 0.031" for more clarity. I also believe that the sustain, which I though was lacking, especially on hammer offs, has increased.

I suppose eventually, I should place a full sized shim in the pocket for better contact. Any guess as to what size I would need based on the 0.019" card I have in there now? In the meantime, I will play the guitar some more and tweak as necessary before I change strings and button it up.

 

[Boreas]

UPDATE

Today I installed a shim made from a 0.019 thick business card that I placed at the top of the neck pocket. It's is about 0.6" deep, extending just below the top pair of body screws. After making the necessary adjustments, the saddles are lower and the intonation screws now sit below the strings. The relief is 0.006 and the action is 0.0625-0.078" for all strings. I lowered both pickups to Fender spec - 0.078" bass and 0.0625" treble. After listening to the guitar for a bit, I ended up lowering the neck pickup 0.031" for more clarity. I also believe that the sustain, which I though was lacking, especially on hammer offs, has increased.

I suppose eventually, I should place a full sized shim in the pocket for better contact. Any guess as to what size I would need based on the 0.019" card I have in there now? In the meantime, I will play the guitar some more and tweak as necessary before I change strings and button it up.

@Freeman Keller could likely calculate it, but I would start with a 0.5° shim. They only come pre-made in a couple angles. Or you can plane your own, or just leave the card shim. Many people do.

I suspect the sustain you gained was from enlarging the screw holes in the body and getting a tighter fit. But bringing the saddles down can also do it.

 

[Slim Chance]

@Freeman Keller could likely calculate it, but I would start with a 0.5° shim. They only come pre-made in a couple angles. Or you can plane your own, or just leave the card shim. Many people do.

I suspect the sustain you gained was from enlarging the screw holes in the body and getting a tighter fit. But bringing the saddles down can also do it.

Yes, the three sizes I've seen are 0.25, 0.5, and 1 degree.

Stew Mac lists the following specs for their shims. I might need sand one down.

Taper specs (approximate)
0.25-degree shim tapers from 0.030" to 0.019" (0.76mm to 0.48mm)
0.5-degree shim tapers from 0.028" to 0.008" (0.71mm to 0.20mm)
1-degree shim tapers from 0.060" to 0.010" (1.52mm to 0.25mm)

 

[Freeman Keller]

Assuming your business card is at the very edge of the 3 inch pocket you divid the hight by the bass to get 0.0063, take the arctangent for 0.36 degrees. High school trig

Since the 0.019 thickness is probably not right at the edge the angle would be a little more - I would go for the 0.5 shim. Nothing wrong with leaving the business card in there - I've seen worse

 

[Boreas]

Yes, the three sizes I've seen are 0.25, 0.5, and 1 degree.

Stew Mac lists the following specs for their shims. I might need sand one down.

Taper specs (approximate)
0.25-degree shim tapers from 0.030" to 0.019" (0.76mm to 0.48mm)
0.5-degree shim tapers from 0.028" to 0.008" (0.71mm to 0.20mm)
1-degree shim tapers from 0.060" to 0.010" (1.52mm to 0.25mm)

I am glad you got it sorted. Still scratching my head why the angle was off at all, but I guess these things happen. If a 0.5 degree shim is a tad too much, you still likely have plenty of room to lower your saddles.

 

[Tele_Tom64]

I know your work is very fine and impressive, but I have a different preference for Tele bridge saddle geometry.
I go out of my way to set up with proper action including saddles high enough that intonation screws stick up.
Two main reasons and a third bonus reason.
1) the strings are not so close to the sides of the plate that picking hits the plate.
2) The break angle is nice and strong so the strings anchor with more force against the saddles, harder to accidentally move the strings when strumming or picking.
3) bonus the height screws are all buried except low and high E screws, so only the low E height screw needs to be cut or replaced with a shorter screw to get your saddle tops free of burrs where your palm mutes.

Break angle is a big one for me though, I dislike the feel and attack when the saddles are low and the break angle is weak, plus the strings being more easily moved is a real PITA.

I see plenty of players do not care, but then also a fair number of players require a modded bridge plate with side lips cut down because the strings are so close to the plate lips.

That's not really a "preference". That's the way you check the neck angle and see if your saddle(s) is/are the correct height. That's just how it's done. Not something he came up with for his guitars. See below. They show an acoustic guitar but the procedure is the same for electrics. You're just measuring to different saddles.

How to check neck angle/saddle height


And just as a general comment not directed towards anyone, I also noticed today that there are finally other readily available places to get 0.25*, 0.50*, & 1.00* wooden shims besides The Ripoff King, StewMac. It's about time.

 

[telemnemonics]

That's not really a "preference". That's the way you check the neck angle and see if your saddle(s) is/are the correct height. That's just how it's done. Not something he came up with for his guitars. See below. They show an acoustic guitar but the procedure is the same for electrics. You're just measuring to different saddles.

How to check neck angle/saddle height


And just as a general comment not directed towards anyone, I also noticed today that there are finally other readily available places to get 0.25*, 0.50*, & 1.00* wooden shims besides The Ripoff King, StewMac. It's about time.

The internet blogger tutorial is too small to read on my phone, but I wonder when it was written?
I learned initially from a book on guitar repair by Irving Sloane, then from a few luthiers.
Been fixing guitars for 44 years.
Maybe I will read it later on a bigger device but I have no difficulty checking neck angle.
The internet seems full of “the way” blogs.
Forgive my being skeptical!

 

[telemnemonics]

That's not really a "preference". That's the way you check the neck angle and see if your saddle(s) is/are the correct height. That's just how it's done. Not something he came up with for his guitars. See below. They show an acoustic guitar but the procedure is the same for electrics. You're just measuring to different saddles.

How to check neck angle/saddle height


And just as a general comment not directed towards anyone, I also noticed today that there are finally other readily available places to get 0.25*, 0.50*, & 1.00* wooden shims besides The Ripoff King, StewMac. It's about time.

Looked at the blog or article, yeah neck angle on an electric is not the same and that was my point about "my preference".

I loathe a "weak break angle" at the bridge, and even more so on a Tele. Many Tele setups include low saddles, a weak break angle, and all height screws sticking out of the saddles.
Replacing them with shorter screws is still wrong to me.

For that matter Istrongly dislike it on an acoustic, but of course that is more limited.

 

[Boreas]

I have been a customer of StewMac for over 20 years and have NEVER been ripped off! Quite the contrary - I have never dealt with a company with better customer support and resources. If you don't want to pay the price for their quality and service, don't bad-mouth a US company with plenty of satisfied and loyal customers - primarily luthiers. I spend my money where I feel comfortable. I don't buy all of my products from S/M - neither do I buy everything from big-box stores selling primarily imported goods.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I have been a customer of StewMac for over 20 years and have NEVER been ripped off! Quite the contrary - I have never dealt with a company with better customer support and resources. If you don't want to pay the price for their quality and service, don't bad-mouth a US company with plenty of satisfied and loyal customers - primarily luthiers. I spend my money where I feel comfortable. I don't buy all of my products from S/M - neither do I buy everything from big-box stores selling primarily imported goods.

Plus one to everything Boreas just said. I have the highest respect for what Stewart McDonald has done for the lutherie community over the 20 plus years that I have been building guitars. I have never been disappointed in the anything I have ever purchased from them and their free technical information is worth its weight in gold.

If you choose to shop elsewhere that is your business and I hope you find the quality and support you are looking for.

 

[bender66]

This is what I aim for, saddles nice and high, and generally back to where the low E height screw is almost touching the screw holding the plate down. All saddles should be buried except the high and low E saddle screws, so the low E screw needs to be cut shorter.
No screws should protrude on a good Tele setup. Well, the high E height screw can protrude since almost nobody hits it with their palm.
And the intonation screws should be cut. Always. They are like nut blanks, need to be trimmed to size.
Working as a guitar tech in the ‘80s & ‘90s I made customers very happy. Not just my special needs oddball setup ideas.
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That just doesnt look right. Very clean work though.