Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
Funny enough, I have a pair like that, but maybe bigger.
Shim the Neck or Cut the Intonation Screws? Or Nothing?
- Thread starter Slim Chance
- Start date
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
OK, I'm back with more photos and measurements.
First off measurements of string height at 1st and 12th fret. All stings at the first fret measured between 2/64" & 3/64".4/64" and 5/64" (0.0625 and 0.078). At the 12th fret all strings we at 5/64" Bass and 4/64" Treble.
Per Freeman's request here are photos of the saddles decked.
With that out of the way, I proceeded to remove the neck. There wasn't any gap at the top of the heel as seen here.
But on the side the 0.012" feeler gauge easily slipped in.
Removing the neck screws showed me that the holes in the body were not drilled to let the screws pass through freely. They aren't as tight as the holes in the body, but they are threaded.
The neck fit is snug, but the pocket is quite clean and smooth without any shims present. I haven't seen one with all of the small holes before. I assume they are from the stick used to hold the body during painting.
So there we have it. I suspect that I should try a shim if I want to lower the saddles or simply cut/replace the intonation screws if I only want to lower the screws to get them below the strings. I suppose it might be best to drill out the holes in the body while I'm at it. Hole size?
Looking forward to more insight from the forum.
First off measurements of string height at 1st and 12th fret. All stings at the first fret measured between 2/64" & 3/64".
Per Freeman's request here are photos of the saddles decked.
With that out of the way, I proceeded to remove the neck. There wasn't any gap at the top of the heel as seen here.
But on the side the 0.012" feeler gauge easily slipped in.
Removing the neck screws showed me that the holes in the body were not drilled to let the screws pass through freely. They aren't as tight as the holes in the body, but they are threaded.
The neck fit is snug, but the pocket is quite clean and smooth without any shims present. I haven't seen one with all of the small holes before. I assume they are from the stick used to hold the body during painting.
So there we have it. I suspect that I should try a shim if I want to lower the saddles or simply cut/replace the intonation screws if I only want to lower the screws to get them below the strings. I suppose it might be best to drill out the holes in the body while I'm at it. Hole size?
Looking forward to more insight from the forum.
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58Bassman
Tele-Holic
I would start by removing the paint along the edge of the socket- the photo from the side makes it seem that the neck is angled downward, toward the bridge I don't think I have ever seen a set of saddles that were set so low but I have to ask- why are you measuring string height when they're slack? That doesn't make sense.
You have to measure when they're tuned to pitch.
I wouldn't re-drill anything. Let the thread that's in the body help to hold the neck in place.
robt57
Telefied
this could just be a lens artifact, but make sure it is/isn't with a straight edge.
bendercaster
Tele-Afflicted
The neck screws should pass feely through the body. Otherwise, the screws can bind up and prevent you from seating the neck properly.
I wouldn't drill them out though. I usually take a drill bit and pass it through by hand a few times to open up the holes.
I wouldn't drill them out though. I usually take a drill bit and pass it through by hand a few times to open up the holes.
robt57
Telefied
Am I seeing a machine thread screw with no threaded inserts in the neck???
If yes, no no..
If yes, no no..
Boreas
Doctor of Teleocity
I would remove all the paint in the pocket. I would also drill out the holes in the body so the screws drop straight through. The gap toward the front of the pocket tells a lot. If there was a gap there, you would need to raise the saddles as the neck was angled upward - a positive angle. Something is keeping the neck heel from lying flat in the pocket. I don't see anything obvious, but if the screw holes in the body are tight, that can interfere with pulling the heel tightly into the socket.
Remove any paint or residual schmutz from the pocket, and check the heel with that straightedge to make sure it isn't warped. The next-to-last picture looks a little dubious, but likely just artifact from the camera angle. Drill out the body holes. Make sure the truss rod nut isn't contacting the pocket, as it can grab if exposed. Reassemble the neck and ensure that gap is gone. if so, check with straightedge to see if the neck is pointing lower now. If so, you will be able to lower the saddles somewhat. Whether it will make you happy remains to be seen, but I think the problem is the neck wasn't properly fit/seated and was compensated by raising the saddles.
Boreas
Doctor of Teleocity
They looked like machine bolts as well to me. I am hoping it was the camera angle, but they look mighty fine for wood threads. But the threads in the neck look like they were cut by a wood screw.
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Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
The are no inserts in the body and the threads in the wood were cut by the body screws or less likely by the factory? Either way the body screws thread neatly into the holes. I agree with @Boreas that they need to be drilled out using either an 11/64" or 3/16" drill bit.
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
No, it's a body wood screw with somewhat fine threads made to look finer by the angle.
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
I will sand down the paint, but I think that the threaded body holes may be preventing the neck and body from mating as tightly as possible.
robt57
Telefied
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
You may have missed some of my previous posts where I showed photos of the saddles in their original state, which is quite high. I was asked by @Freeman Keller to show an image of the saddles decked to he can judge the state of the setup using his methods.
Freeman Keller
Doctor of Teleocity
OK as I have said before that would not be acceptable geometry for me. I would want the straight edge touching the tops of the saddles.
Your gap at the inside of the pocket concerns me. If you take the arc tangent of 0.012/2 (the length of the pocket) you get 1.04 degrees of neck angle (assuming the pocket and heel are both flat on the bottom and parallel to the neck plane). Most Fender necks have zero angle unless someone has put it there (with a shim). I don't see a cause but in my humble opinion you have a bad neck angle.
If nothing else, throw a one degree shim in there with the fat side to the outside and see what that gives you.
One more thing, the screw should have a clearance hole in the body and only be cutting threads into the neck. If is is "screwing" into the body wood that can forcee the joint apart rather than pulling it together.
Your gap at the inside of the pocket concerns me. If you take the arc tangent of 0.012/2 (the length of the pocket) you get 1.04 degrees of neck angle (assuming the pocket and heel are both flat on the bottom and parallel to the neck plane). Most Fender necks have zero angle unless someone has put it there (with a shim). I don't see a cause but in my humble opinion you have a bad neck angle.
If nothing else, throw a one degree shim in there with the fat side to the outside and see what that gives you.
One more thing, the screw should have a clearance hole in the body and only be cutting threads into the neck. If is is "screwing" into the body wood that can forcee the joint apart rather than pulling it together.
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Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
Good Catch! Height from top of 1st fret to bottom of strings on is about 2/64" (0.031) 12 fret E, A, D 5/64" (0.078") and G, B, e 4/64" ().062")
Freeman Keller
Doctor of Teleocity
Tha would be very high nut action in my opinion. I like around 0.012-14 on the high E and 0.018 or so on the low. Fender factory specs are0.020 on both.
Also there is no advantage to a fine threaded screw for this application. The standard Fender neck screw is a #8 x 1-3/4. I just measured one at its got about 15 threads per inch which is pretty coarse.
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
After cleaning the pocket and enlarging the body holes the gap is a bit less and not as wide top to bottom (0.080"), but still there. And of course, I still have the issue with the saddle height. Anything wrong with plastic shims? I can't see buying the Stew Mac shims for $50.00.
A feel the same about the neck angle. I'm not knowledgable enough to measure, but I do know someone from Germany posted about his guitar having the same exact problem. It was the same model and even the same even color. He had the screws shortened and left it at that.
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I think so too.
Also I wonder about the diameter of the saddles themselves, are they original to the guitar? ( Apologies again if I missed this, I'll review the thread
)
They look large in diameter, in the photos, to me at least.
Also I wonder about the diameter of the saddles themselves, are they original to the guitar? ( Apologies again if I missed this, I'll review the thread
)They look large in diameter, in the photos, to me at least.
Well this is odd.
No shim in the pocket, yet the heel is not flat against the bottom of the neck pocket?
Check that the neck heel and neck pocket are both dead flat with a small straight edge.
Otherwise I am not sure what the goal is any more?
To keep the intonation screws long?
Once those are cut or for some reason replaced and saved, is there some other problem with the guitar?
As for concerns the holes in the body being snug will prevent the neck from seating, all you need to do is drive the screws with a screwdriver into the body with the neck off. I doubt they tighten into the wood. If they do not stop turning, if they do not thread that tight into the body, the holes are not too small.
No shim in the pocket, yet the heel is not flat against the bottom of the neck pocket?
Check that the neck heel and neck pocket are both dead flat with a small straight edge.
Otherwise I am not sure what the goal is any more?
To keep the intonation screws long?
Once those are cut or for some reason replaced and saved, is there some other problem with the guitar?
As for concerns the holes in the body being snug will prevent the neck from seating, all you need to do is drive the screws with a screwdriver into the body with the neck off. I doubt they tighten into the wood. If they do not stop turning, if they do not thread that tight into the body, the holes are not too small.
