Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
I have shorter height adjustment screws, but if I lower the saddles the strings/action will be too low. Relief is 0.008 and string height is 4/64"-5/64".
Shim the Neck or Cut the Intonation Screws? Or Nothing?
- Thread starter Slim Chance
- Start date
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
Tomorrow I will pull the neck and have a look see in the pocket for any surprises. From the outside, it looks as though the neck is properly seated.
If the dimensions of the neck heel and neck pocket are right at the edge of their "spec" gummed stickers in the pocket or on the heel ( if there are any ) can make the difference.
Freeman Keller
Doctor of Teleocity
What I mean is for the saddles to be sitting on the bridge plate as low as they will go. Then check the neck angle with your straightedge on the frets pointing to the saddles - you want it just on the tops. If you don't have that then shimming is one way to correct the angle.
Think about it for a minute. Most of us like somewhere between 0.060 (high E) and 0.080 (low). To get that you will raise the saddles twice that amount or between 0.120 and 0.160 - that is very reasonable with the screws that come with Fender style bridges and will give you lots of adjustment for the future. With that amount of saddle height your intonation screws will be more parallel to the plate and won't be sticking up in the air like yours.
It looks like you have a lot of compensation cranked in to the intonation screws particularly the E and B. That tells me you were very sharp when you started doing the intonation process which can happen from high action (you've never said what your actual action measured.
If you read my setup thread the first thing I always do is measure everything before doing anything. And I always make sure the geometry is correct.
Think about it for a minute. Most of us like somewhere between 0.060 (high E) and 0.080 (low). To get that you will raise the saddles twice that amount or between 0.120 and 0.160 - that is very reasonable with the screws that come with Fender style bridges and will give you lots of adjustment for the future. With that amount of saddle height your intonation screws will be more parallel to the plate and won't be sticking up in the air like yours.
It looks like you have a lot of compensation cranked in to the intonation screws particularly the E and B. That tells me you were very sharp when you started doing the intonation process which can happen from high action (you've never said what your actual action measured.
If you read my setup thread the first thing I always do is measure everything before doing anything. And I always make sure the geometry is correct.
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Boreas
Doctor of Teleocity
If the pocket was not routed out quite deep enough, the neck can sit high, requiring a higher saddle adjustment, even with a perfectly flat neck angle. This isn't likely, but who knows. Just judging by the height of your pickups and the seemingly parallel angle along the pickguard, I would say your neck and angle pretty close to where they should be. But when you pull the neck, look for a shim or even finish schmutz which may be keeping the neck from seating properly. Also, sometimes the heel of the neck gets hung up on the pickguard or front of the pocket, angling it upward slightly. Inspect your pocket joint carefully to make sure your neck is fully seated and there are no gaps between the neck and the floor of the pocket.
If you find nothing amiss in the pocket, certainly nothing wrong with swapping the screws for shorter screws. Throw the old ones in a baggie in the guitar case. These intonation screws poking up seem to be a common problem. They are a LOT longer than they need to be. I am surprised Fender just doesn't start spec'ing shorter ones from their supplier. But I guess they wouldn't be "vintage spec".
If you find nothing amiss in the pocket, certainly nothing wrong with swapping the screws for shorter screws. Throw the old ones in a baggie in the guitar case. These intonation screws poking up seem to be a common problem. They are a LOT longer than they need to be. I am surprised Fender just doesn't start spec'ing shorter ones from their supplier. But I guess they wouldn't be "vintage spec".
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Freeman Keller
Doctor of Teleocity
While you are waiting for tomorrow you might want to read this. The first part is basically the geomety of a flat topped guitar with a neck angle of zero and some overstand - sounds lik a tele
www.tdpri.com
And as I said before, before I would start unscrewing the neck I would measure everything and write it all down.
One more thing to check is that the neck screws are tight. Try pushing a thin feeler blade under the neck to see if it is loose
Building for playability
Geometry 101 I’ve been thinking about doing this thread for quite a long time but several recent threads tell me this might be the time. If any of you have followed my ranting, er posting, you know that I am quite focused on the geometry of the guitar. I frankly don’t care what your guitar...
And as I said before, before I would start unscrewing the neck I would measure everything and write it all down.
One more thing to check is that the neck screws are tight. Try pushing a thin feeler blade under the neck to see if it is loose
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Saddle heights are nice, just where I like em.
I ALWAYS cut those intonations screws shorter.
Note that once cut, it is harder to compress the spring and thread the screw into the saddle.
Cutting springs shorter helps and if the saddles are the flat bottom type I back out the height screws so the saddles sit flat on the plate, then push them back against thw springs and thread the intonation screw in.
Otherwise the parts will go flying once or twice, with screws cut short.
My assumption is that ridiculous extra length is just to make assembly easier.
I ALWAYS cut those intonations screws shorter.
Note that once cut, it is harder to compress the spring and thread the screw into the saddle.
Cutting springs shorter helps and if the saddles are the flat bottom type I back out the height screws so the saddles sit flat on the plate, then push them back against thw springs and thread the intonation screw in.
Otherwise the parts will go flying once or twice, with screws cut short.
My assumption is that ridiculous extra length is just to make assembly easier.
I know your work is very fine and impressive, but I have a different preference for Tele bridge saddle geometry.
I go out of my way to set up with proper action including saddles high enough that intonation screws stick up.
Two main reasons and a third bonus reason.
1) the strings are not so close to the sides of the plate that picking hits the plate.
2) The break angle is nice and strong so the strings anchor with more force against the saddles, harder to accidentally move the strings when strumming or picking.
3) bonus the height screws are all buried except low and high E screws, so only the low E height screw needs to be cut or replaced with a shorter screw to get your saddle tops free of burrs where your palm mutes.
Break angle is a big one for me though, I dislike the feel and attack when the saddles are low and the break angle is weak, plus the strings being more easily moved is a real PITA.
I see plenty of players do not care, but then also a fair number of players require a modded bridge plate with side lips cut down because the strings are so close to the plate lips.
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If I had a shim in the picket and the saddles were like this, I might remove the shim, but it is really close to my ideal setup.
I seldom need a shim in a correct spec Tele, and these saddles are a little higher than my usual setup.
I also never use as much as .008 relief, more like .003 or so, which makes me (and others) think you may have a shim already, which you may not really need.
I seldom need a shim in a correct spec Tele, and these saddles are a little higher than my usual setup.
I also never use as much as .008 relief, more like .003 or so, which makes me (and others) think you may have a shim already, which you may not really need.
Trenchant63
Tele-Holic
My Warmoth Strat body’s neck pocket was a bit too shallow for the Warmoth neck. I ended up “temporarily” putting a metal shim under the saddle screws at about a dime’s thickness. Now I’m beginning to like the slightly elevated strings so I might leave it that way. It feels a bit like a Les Paul.
Freeman Keller
Doctor of Teleocity
I appreciate that and since it works I won't argue. I come to electric guitars and Fender style electrics from acoustics where geometry is everything (and sometimes difficult to obtain). What I have learned is that I can apply the same rules and methods to every guitar that I work on - steel string acoustic, F-style electric, G-style electric, bass guitars, mandolins, and almost anything else that crosses my bench (doesn't work with classicals, dobros, ukuleles and a few others). I might have to change my setup specs a bit - I'll do that anyway after watching someone play. But if I follow the steps I've outlined the guitar will be playable and will have adjustment left for things as they change.
I'm anal about measuring, I alwys follow the same steps, I know my limits, I almost never have complaints.
Boreas
Doctor of Teleocity
Then there is Leo's solution:
mbapcpppmd
TDPRI Member
It just doesn’t look right, with the leggy saddle height screws and the saddles so close to the string-through holes; no wonder the intonation screws are pointed to the sky. Would you consider paying for a professional examination and setup first?
Slim Chance
Tele-Afflicted
While you are waiting for tomorrow you might want to read this. The first part is basically the geomety of a flat topped guitar with a neck angle of zero and some overstand - sounds lik a tele
Building for playability
Geometry 101 I’ve been thinking about doing this thread for quite a long time but several recent threads tell me this might be the time. If any of you have followed my ranting, er posting, you know that I am quite focused on the geometry of the guitar. I frankly don’t care what your guitar...
And as I said before, before I would start unscrewing the neck I would measure everything and write it all down.
One more thing to check is that the neck screws are tight. Try pushing a thin feeler blade under the neck to see if it is loose
View attachment 1094741
The guitar was initially set up by a tech at Chuck Levin’s. I wrote down the measurements for relief, string height, pickup height and maybe one or two other things before tweaking to my preferences. I then wrote down the changes I made.
This is what I aim for, saddles nice and high, and generally back to where the low E height screw is almost touching the screw holding the plate down. All saddles should be buried except the high and low E saddle screws, so the low E screw needs to be cut shorter.
No screws should protrude on a good Tele setup. Well, the high E height screw can protrude since almost nobody hits it with their palm.
And the intonation screws should be cut. Always. They are like nut blanks, need to be trimmed to size.
Working as a guitar tech in the ‘80s & ‘90s I made customers very happy. Not just my special needs oddball setup ideas.
No screws should protrude on a good Tele setup. Well, the high E height screw can protrude since almost nobody hits it with their palm.
And the intonation screws should be cut. Always. They are like nut blanks, need to be trimmed to size.
Working as a guitar tech in the ‘80s & ‘90s I made customers very happy. Not just my special needs oddball setup ideas.
robt57
Telefied
When you pull the neck, beside a shim, sticker, errant paint clumps etc. Look to see there are no ridges at the holes in the body or neck. I counter sink [bevel] the mating holes my self. Also a light snug clamping of the neck once assuredly seated flat to the pocket before securing screws not a bad habit.
Also, if the hole diameter in the body are too tight to the screws, opening them up a little and then counter sinking the edges good practice as well.
Sometimes the push on the screws if they are very tight in the neck/thread if/when hole in neck are not quite deep enough raises neck off the pocket upon final tightening. So soaping the threads on the last 1/2" of the screws prudent as well. I always do this my hand myself..
Light ga stings can make this happen I've seen.
Also, if the hole diameter in the body are too tight to the screws, opening them up a little and then counter sinking the edges good practice as well.
Sometimes the push on the screws if they are very tight in the neck/thread if/when hole in neck are not quite deep enough raises neck off the pocket upon final tightening. So soaping the threads on the last 1/2" of the screws prudent as well. I always do this my hand myself..
Light ga stings can make this happen I've seen.
Solaris moon
Tele-Holic
I think that you should just get shorter screws. Those shouldn't protrude that far from the edge of the saddles themselves. This way you can still get the height and length that you desire without compromise. You can always change them back if you decide to sell for whatever reason. As already said before in other posts these are longer to allow ease of installing the springs. It's not always necessary. I have very short intonation screws on a bridge that I put Allparts brand saddles on. It's very hard to put them on without a fight but they work. You can get them from the hardware store I'm sure. Take one along with you to size up. Find a nut that will fit onto it so that you know the exact thread size then put another bolt into it to be sure. This is how I always test fit for replacements in a pinch.
58Bassman
Tele-Holic
Chasing threads is easy- use a nut of the same size and pitch, put it on the screw and cut/grind the end, then remove the nut.
Some electrical wire stripper/crimpers have a series of holes for cutting screws, too- makes life very easy if this is needed frequently.
https://www.gardnerbender.com/en/p/GESP-70/Pro-Grade-ArmEdge-3-in-1-Wire
This tool is the only way to handle those screws.
Shorter screws is the easiest rout. Just take one out and go to a good local hardware store to match them up since their possibly metric. They're a large enough diameter that even Lowes or Home Depot may have them. It shouldn't cost more than $3 and an hour and your setup will go back to the exact same positions and feel as it is now.
