Shim the Neck or Cut the Intonation Screws? Or Nothing?

[Slim Chance]

I have a Vintera Modified 50s Tele with the three saddle bridge. The height of the saddles, when adjusted for correct string height and intonation rise above the strings. I would like to lower the intonation screws below the strings and if possible, lower the saddles, but still maintain the current string heights, which are at Fender spec. The B string chokes out above the 12th-14th fret, but I suspect that raising the saddle will fix it. Relief at the 8th fret is 0.008.

The question is what is the best way to fix this myself. I have tools to measure height and can adjust the truss rod as needed. I don't do fret work and will not attempt to mess with the neck pocket other than to clean it out and insert shims.

Cutting the screws would appear to be the quick fix and I can do that easily and chase the threads if needed. That, however, won't settle the saddle height issue. I should also mention that when setting up the guitar, I had to clip a few coils off of a couple of the intonation springs. The intonation is pretty good, but at least one of the saddles cannot move further back without a further reduction of spring length.

I believe that the other way to solve this problem is by inserting a shim in the neck pocket. A little more involved, but I might be able to lower the saddles and therefore the intonation screws as well. Initially, I would use card stock rather than make or purchase tapered wood shims.

I'd like your opinions and advice on how to proceed to lower the intonation screws below the strings and if possible, the saddles while maintaining the current string height.

TIA!

 

[Boreas]

Is there a neck shim in place now? If so, it may simply need to be removed.

I would start by measuring the height of the strings above the body at the bridge before you start. Then check the neck for relief.

 

[bendercaster]

My experience is that changing the height of the saddles may change the feel of the guitar - how slinky or stiff the strings feel. That being said, I'm a big fan of angled full pocket shims to get the angle right on bolt neck guitars, which can affect the saddle height. For me, it has improved the playability of my two offsets and one of my Tele's.

Edit to add: If you put the high side of the angled shim on the headstock side of the pocket it will change the angle of the neck in a way that should allow you to lower the saddles.

Fender has used card stock of sandpaper for ever to do this, but I don't like how it compresses in the pocket, or in some cases creates an indent in the pocket. But plenty of people do it.

My preference is to use the premade, angled full pocket shims Stewmac sells. I think they are pricey for what they are, but I've been very happy with them.

 

[Slim Chance]

Is there a neck shim in place now? If so, it may simply need to be removed.

I would start by measuring the height of the strings above the body at the bridge before you start. Then check the neck for relief.

I have yet to pull the neck. I bought the guitar new so if there is one, it's from the factory.

I haven't measured the height of the stings above the bridge, but I can do that. The guitar is set up mostly to Fender's recommendations except for the relief which I reduced from 0.010 to 0.008. It plays well with 9s but I may move up to 10s to see if I like them o this guitar. I generally play one or the other.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I have a Vintera Modified 50s Tele with the three saddle bridge. The height of the saddles, when adjusted for correct string height and intonation rise above the strings.

I don't understand that - can you post a picture.

The only time I consider shimming a neck is when the fret plane does not hit the tops of the saddles at their lowest adjustment - that is the starting point for my action adjustment. I do the intonation after settting the action because changes in string height affect intonationl

 

[Slim Chance]

I don't understand that - can you post a picture.

The only time I consider shimming a neck is when the fret plane does not hit the tops of the saddles at their lowest adjustment - that is the starting point for my action adjustment. I do the intonation after settting the action because changes in string height affect intonationl

I will try to post a picture soon. The guitar is set up well in terms of playability with the action, string height to pickups and intonation all satisfactory, but the saddles are so high that the intonation screws are angled up and reach above the tops of the strings so as to touch your palm while muting. My other two Teles have the saddles much lower and the intonation screws are more parallel to the bridge.

 

[Freeman Keller]

OK I can picture that. Ideally if you screw the height adjusting screws all the way down the fret plane hits the tops of the saddles. That should give you enough adjustment to get realistic action (60 to 90 thousands at 12)_ and still have some adjustment. My relief target is somewhere around 5 thou, the first thing I set.

Once you have playable action you can set the intonation. The higher the action the more the string goes sharp and the more compensation needs to be added.

Here is the whole procedure

Basic Setup

There are a couple of threads running right now where questions have been asked about leveling frets, making nuts and other setup related topics. I’ve commented a bit and I’ve received a few private messages asking about aspects that we’ve been discussion. I thought maybe it was time to...

www.tdpri.com

 

[Ricky D.]

Shim the neck. Quick and easy. A piece of card stock at the headstock end to lower the strings.

I capo the strings before taking off the neck, just keeps things from flying around.

 

[Boreas]

I have yet to pull the neck. I bought the guitar new so if there is one, it's from the factory.

I haven't measured the height of the stings above the bridge, but I can do that. The guitar is set up mostly to Fender's recommendations except for the relief which I reduced from 0.010 to 0.008. It plays well with 9s but I may move up to 10s to see if I like them o this guitar. I generally play one or the other.

That isn't impossible. Fender used to shim many necks in days of yore. I doubt they do it much any more with CNC precision.

 

[Boreas]

I will try to post a picture soon. The guitar is set up well in terms of playability with the action, string height to pickups and intonation all satisfactory, but the saddles are so high that the intonation screws are angled up and reach above the tops of the strings so as to touch your palm while muting. My other two Teles have the saddles much lower and the intonation screws are more parallel to the bridge.

Are your pickups sitting fairly proud of the body? Make sure you are able to adjust them downward if you shim the neck and lower the saddles.

 

[Slim Chance]

Are your pickups sitting fairly proud of the body? Make sure you are able to adjust them downward if you shim the neck and lower the saddles.

There is room for adjustment.

 

[Slim Chance]

Much needed photos.

 

[Painter644]

Mark ‘em, cut ‘em. Easy. Also, shorter saddle screws are available.

 

[Boreas]

Looks like the neck angle needs to be changed, or shorter intonation screws. Your call obviously. I would first check to make sure there isn't a shim in place already. Just loosen the strings fully and back out the neck screws. I usually put a capo on the first fret. Make sure your neck is in good alignment when you re-tighten the screws. I would think the shim would be easier, but whatever you are comfortable with. The neck angle change will leave your screws original, just lower. But you will need to re-intonate slightly after all of the adjustments.

 

[Wallaby]

I've shimmed at the headstock end of the neck pocket before for a similar situation, and as shallow as it sounds I couldn't live with the way it looked - I hated it!

I was eventually able to just disregard the intonation screws. Yeah, I could feel them, but I can feel the strings, the saddles and other stuff down there too, and decided it was a non-issue. It wasn't affecting the way I played, injuring me or anything like that.

So I guess my vote is to "try doing nothing for a while" and see how it goes?

 

[yegbert]

If the intonation screws are the only real problem, measure and buy ones of a length that will put them just long enough to reach through the saddles; or cut the existing screws that length.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Its interesting that if you are going to shim you will need the thicker part of the shim towards the outside of the pocket. That is not the way it normally works. Maybe you have a shim that needs to be removed.

Before you go any farther I would like to see your second photo only with the strings removed and the saddle height adjusting screws adjusted all the way down. That should be your starting poin.

 

[58Bassman]

I would never recommend shimming a neck if the only issue was that the intonation screws are too long. This is a problem with the screws, not the body or neck. They don't need to stick up, so you could either buy shorter ones or shorten these.

Easy way- find out how much shorter they need to be, put each in a drill chuck and turn on the grinder, carefully removing only as much as is needed. Once each is the needed length. round off the bottom end before repeating on the rest.

 

[schmee]

I've done both. Shimming is easier. Handling those tiny screws is terrible! Chasing threads on them is difficult unless you have nut or die that small.
Buy screws!

 

[Slim Chance]

Its interesting that if you are going to shim you will need the thicker part of the shim towards the outside of the pocket. That is not the way it normally works. Maybe you have a shim that needs to be removed.

Before you go any farther I would like to see your second photo only with the strings removed and the saddle height adjusting screws adjusted all the way down. That should be your starting poin.

Would you please clarify what you mean by saddle height screws adjusted all of the way down? Do you mean so that the saddles height adjustment screws are raised out of the holes so the saddles sit on the bridge or that the screws are inserted as far as possible, which raises the saddles?

I should mention that the string height is where I usually have it set so raising or lower the saddles would have to be offset by some other adjustment.