Shielding under metal control plate?

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by coreytree, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. coreytree

    coreytree Tele-Meister

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    I'm preparing to shield the control area of my Mustang PJ Bass because it's pretty noisy, and wonder -

    1) Do I I need to add the copper tape on the underside of the metal control plate or not?
    2) If I only do the control/switch cavity and don't extend the shielding to under the pickups, will that make it less effective? Do I need to add it to the area under the pickups?

    Not sure of the best way to cut and fit the shielding tape, but I'll try to custom fit it as much as possible vs just cramming it in I suppose.


    For Shielding.jpeg
     
  2. Peegoo

    Peegoo Friend of Leo's

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    No need to apply it to the plate.

    There are several ways to do this. I find it's easiest to press a piece of aluminum foil into the bottom of the rout...stuff it all down flat so it takes the shape of the bottom of the rout. Remove it, lay it on the copper foil, and draw around it with a Sharpie.

    Cut it out, staying about 1/4" to the outside of your line. Peel the backing, center it in the bottom of the rout, and press it in with the excess around the perimeter coming up the sides 1/4". Wrap a shop towel around the tip of your finger to make sliding your fingertip over the foil a lot easier. If you cannot get a fingertip into tight corners, wrap the shop towel over the eraser end of a pencil and use that.

    Next, cut several short strips, with the width being equal to the depth plus 1/8". Apply these to the sides of the rout, with the top edge sticking out te extra 1/8". Fold that over onto the top of the guitar.

    That's just one way, and it works for me. Look on YT for other examples.

    I buy my copper foil sheet and tape from Delphi Glass (stained glass supplier). Way cheaper than buying "guitar shielding tape." Another option is a garden supply store, because copper tape is used on planting pots to repel slugs and snails. This stuff does not have conductive adhesive, but it's dead simple to add a dot of solder to one edge of each new piece you add. This provides continuity between all pieces of copper tape.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
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  3. eallen

    eallen Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The control plate is it's own sheilding, I usually just run a small tab of tape onto the surface for the plate to contact when installed. [​IMG]

    Eric
     
  4. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    That control plate has something black on it...? or just the light? If it does, shield it.
     
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  5. coreytree

    coreytree Tele-Meister

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    It’s just the light.
     
  6. coreytree

    coreytree Tele-Meister

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    Beautiful guitar top there.
     
  7. mfguitar

    mfguitar Tele-Afflicted

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    You may have some other issues going on as well such as bad solder joints or faulty components. I shield guitars that I have built but my stock Fenders and Tom Anderson have no shielding and there is no issue with noise.
     
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  8. coreytree

    coreytree Tele-Meister

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    Interesting that you say that. The reason I took this one open is to replace the faulty pickup selector switch. Wonder if that was the source of the entire issue. Well, shielding it now regardless...
     
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  9. hopdybob

    hopdybob Tele-Afflicted

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    that one has more ore less problems with hum etc. has also to do if you live in the surrounding where there is a lot of electric/ electronic storms ore not.

    i know there are different view about shielding, but i do the 2 material shield.
    i lay some printer paper over the cav's and fixate them with some low tack tape.
    than take a pencil hold it very / and softly go over the the paper where the edges are, and you will see a darker line appear.
    so you have a cutting mold.
    i measure the depth and slice some parts with a bit higher size.
    start with the bottom of the cave and work to the top.

    but reading work from Bill Lawrence i use in the control cav alu tape, beneath and surrounding the pickups copper.
    ifi would have enough room in the control cav i would use 2 layers, 1 alu , and 1 copper
    http://billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/TeleLovers.htm
    http://billlawrence.com/Pages/Pickupology/External Interference.htm.

    and what was getting my attention was this:

    "Aluminum has some strange properties, and it's the only commercially available metal I know of that can eliminate the buzz caused by light dimmers. An inch thick copper or brass shield cannot reduce the buzz caused by light dimmers but .003 thick aluminum foil can! This is known some thirty years and the reason why Belden introduced double shielded cable ( Copper braid plus aluminum foil). There is one problem for guitar cords -- the double shielding makes the cable too stiff . It helps quite a bit when you shield your guitar with copper and aluminum foil. "

    i know there are some that say it is not true, but alu tape is not expensive, and my guitars do well with this kind of shielding
     
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  10. coreytree

    coreytree Tele-Meister

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    I have some aluminum duct tape. Think that would work? I assume the adhesive is not conductive, but that would not matter I suppose if I’m covering it with a layer of copper.
    Tthanks for the pattern-making thoughts as well.
     
  11. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    only as a last resort.. the adhesive isn't conductive, so every piece would have to be mechanically connected with a screw and a wire going from each to the next. Aluminum cannot be soldered to except with special equipment.. so that's not a solution...

    getcha some copper foil tape.. do it right...

    r
     
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  12. hopdybob

    hopdybob Tele-Afflicted

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    i don't know that ductape alu, i use the alu gutter repair that is conductive like this one
    https://www.tesa.com/en/consumer/tesa-aluminium-tape.html
    and like Ronkirn says, do it good ore don't do it at al.
    (watch out bare wire form you wiring don't short your system by touching the alu/copper shielding)
     
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  13. Javier668

    Javier668 Tele-Meister

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    Metal is a shield.
     
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  14. rangercaster

    rangercaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Leo didn't think it was necessary...


    Who are we to second guess Leo ???

    Not me ...
     
  15. coreytree

    coreytree Tele-Meister

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    Just have a lot of hum noise I’m trying to solve some way or another, so I’m trying this and replacing a bad switch - the latter could solve the whole problem, who knows.
     
  16. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Only if electrically contiguous throughout the whole cavity... and grounded...
     
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  17. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    In the 50's and 60's we didn't have anywhere need the interference we have today... heck, about ALL the electrical appliances, etc., emit interference... in the 60's the only thing that caused problems was Mom's vacuum cleamer..
     
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  18. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    The HVAC "Nashua" Aluminum Flashing Tape is what you want ... just a roll labeled 'duct tape' might not get you to the right stuff, even though the flashing tape is used for ducts -- all the hardware store folks will walk you over to the rack of plastic duct tape. Nashua Aluminum Flashing Tape roll is about $7 at the usual big box hardware store and there is enough tape on it to shield two dozen guitars.

    Copper tape kits barely cover one guitar, especially if you have an oops, and run five times the cost of the aluminum roll. Some grab 'grub tape' that is copper to use in their guitars, but the aluminum works better for noise reduction...+1 about the research on copper vs aluminum. All the pretty pictures of copper tape installations continues the interest in using copper but electrical function is what you want.

    The adhesive on the flashing tape is not conductive. However, the process of putting the strips down in the guitar cavities will naturally wrinkle and create connections, and even if they don't you can lay over additional pieces to electrically bridge or wrinkle/fold corners easily. Use a multi-meter ($7 Harbor Freight meter is fine) and test for continuity between pieces when you put it in.

    Lastly, you have a pretty short run of wire from the volume pot to the jack, but on Strats, Teles, and other guitars I replace the two wires to the jack with shielded cable and have found that run can often be half the guitar's idle noise floor, the other half fixed with cavity shielding. Twisting the pair of wires does nothing, the run needs to be shielded. Yours may be ok after shielding the cavity. I have one HH V-guitar where the jack is in the upper V horn, runs down the V, across the bridge pickup cavity, and down to the controls and it was the noisiest guitar when I got it. I first did the cavity shielding and it helped some but still a huge amount of noise. I tried the wire twisting trick just to check against the common kitchen advise and it was still just as noisy. I replaced that long run with shielded cable and the guitar quieted right up.

    .
     
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  19. Jim_in_PA

    Jim_in_PA Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    The metal face of the HVAC aluminum tape is likely conductive, but the adhesive probably isn't like the copper material many of us use from luthier suppliers. It's probably just fine on the back of a pickguard, however, as long as that metal face is coming in contact with the shielding in the cavities.
     
  20. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    in the 60-s -70's Jaguars were the most expensive fender guitars , under all the cavities were grounded brass plates that were solder linked together to form a continuous shield , this was not a flimsy operation but a solid ,formed , shield with heavey grade brass

    early 60's strats had a metal plate under the pick guard used to shield the internals , so leo did think it was necessary,
     
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