Shellac as a tint/basecoat. Wondering where to go next...

[redddog]

Hey guys. So I've zpoxy'ed 4 times and put probably 8 coats of amber shellac on and the color is about where I wan't it.

My question is where to go from here. One of the issues is that there are a couple of runs that I need to sand down but I get the feeling that this 8 coats of Shellac can be sanded through pretty easily.

- Should I continue with a few more coats knowing that sanding will knock back a layer or two?

- Sanding. Wet or Dry? should I be using 600, 800, or higher to get the shellac coat level?

- I've seen plenty of guitars with shellac as a final coat but I tend to bang my guitars around so something with a more protective coat seems like a good idea. Leaning towards Tru-oil, Wipe on Poly or (least appealing) wiat for spring and spray nitro.

Whatcha think?

 

[middy]

Just a couple coats of Bullseye is all I use for necks and bodies. Maybe some carnauba wax on top of it.
I don’t bother to post about it because people say it isn’t good enough, but it is for me and I’ve had no problems. But I’m not looking for a super smooth finish, either.

 

[Boreas]

Hey guys. So I've zpoxy'ed 4 times and put probably 8 coats of amber shellac on and the color is about where I wan't it.

My question is where to go from here. One of the issues is that there are a couple of runs that I need to sand down but I get the feeling that this 8 coats of Shellac can be sanded through pretty easily.

- Should I continue with a few more coats knowing that sanding will knock back a layer or two?

- Sanding. Wet or Dry? should I be using 600, 800, or higher to get the shellac coat level?

- I've seen plenty of guitars with shellac as a final coat but I tend to bang my guitars around so something with a more protective coat seems like a good idea. Leaning towards Tru-oil, Wipe on Poly or (least appealing) wiat for spring and spray nitro.

Whatcha think?

Why are you sanding? Is the finish rough in addition to the runs, or are you just trying to get a better gloss? Pix are always helpful and appreciated.

 

[Peegoo]

There are a thousand ways to proceed from where you are. However, sanding any shaded clearcoat is fraught with danger because it is way too easy to get blotchy results; it's nearly impossible to evenly sand several layers of finish and maintain an even tint over the entire body.

If you can, carefully scrape the runs level and lightly wetsand with 1000. And proceed from there.

 

[redddog]

Why are you sanding? Is the finish rough in addition to the runs, or are you just trying to get a better gloss? Pix are always helpful and appreciated.

Yeah, It's a bit rough. Scraping sounds like the way to go in re: the runs. Then maybe a suuuuper light 800 grit level sand?

- Would maybe a dozen of tru-oil coats darken the tint from here, ya'll think?

 

[Boreas]

Yeah, It's a bit rough. Scraping sounds like the way to go in re: the runs. Then maybe a suuuuper light 800 grit level?

- Would maybe a dozen of tru-oil coats darken the tint from here, ya'll think?

It would - especially over time.

I like to form a scraper from a single edge razor blade. Drag the edge over a smooth, hardened steel tool several times at about a 30-45 degree angle. The resulting burr is then drawn CAREFULLY across the high spot.

 

[Mark the Moose]

Do not wet sand shellac, it tends to cloud up and you'll never get it back to where it was. I used micro-mesh pads on my shellac then applied 12-15 (20?) coats of tru-oil. Micro-mesh again then wax.

 

[Peegoo]

You can safely wetsand shellac using low-odor mineral spirits instead of water. I've had good results with it.

Matter of fact, I have not used water to wetsand any finish in the last 10 years or so. MS won't swell wood like water does, and it's safe to use on all cured finishes.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Be sure that that shellac has fully outgassed before you do anything...8 coats is a lot and shellac should always be as thin as possible as a coating. It's not like varnish or lacquer in that respect and thicker can crack/crackle. Sanding is just fine...just try to not cut through.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I no longer use shellac as a seal coat on top of Zpoxy. I think my last application of Zpoxy with lots of DNA (maybe 10:1) and lightly sand that to about 320 dry. Then a couple of coats of vinyl sealer and lacquer.

I used to use shellac directly on spruce tops (which don't get Zpoxy) - after two or three coats I would simply sand to 320 and start applying lacquer. Now I just use vinyl sealer.

Wet sanding is reserved for after the last coats of lacquer have been applied. I do one wet "flow" coat, let that dry for a couple of weeks and start wet sanding at 1000 or 1200.

 

[Yonatan]

This is Zpoxy -> Shellac -> Micromeshed.

This particular shellac (which I mixed from flakes) came out surprisingly rock solid, though this hasn't always been my experience with shellac.

 

[redddog]

Here’s where I’m at.

 

[redddog]

Here’s what I started with…

 

[blackbelt308]

This is Zpoxy -> Shellac -> Micromeshed.

This particular shellac (which I mixed from flakes) came out surprisingly rock solid, though this hasn't always been my experience with shellac.

How are you applying the shellac? Brushed? Wiped on? Sprayed? Just curious... Nice result!

 

[Sea Devil]

That body is so highly figured that you can get away with a lot of variation in the finish. I'd strip sand the runs and dry sand with 800 or so. As long as you don't break through the shellac, it should be fine.

 

[redddog]

How are you applying the shellac? Brushed? Wiped on? Sprayed? Just curious... Nice result!

I've been rubbing it on with a tampon (as the french say - haha - sorry, I'm 10 yrs old). Just going with the grain and fighting the urge to put too much on.

Thanks!

 

[redddog]

That body is so highly figured that you can get away with a lot of variation in the finish. I'd strip sand the runs and dry sand with 800 or so. As long as you don't break through the shellac, it should be fine.

My plan was to gently scrape the runs (there's only a couple around the edges). Then sand lightly. Would you guys sand with the grain or do circular sanding? Do I need to wait for it harden more before sanding?

Any suggestions on where to go next?

My ideas are:

- Tru-oil. I like the idea ofthe ease, the additional ambering that comes with Tru-oil and I've seen some real beauties done with Tru-oil. Hate the time it takes and it sounds like it might not be the optimal scenario to do this particular finish with TO. Most of the time, TO finishes I've seen show off some of the grain and allow for the TO to penetrate th wood. This is done in Zpoxy and several light coats of Amber shellac so there's no pentration here (hehe).

- Wipe on poly. The question is water based or oil based and whether this is a nice enough finish. I know I can get it glossy and well protected but I hate the plastic-y feel of some finishes and I'd hate to end up there. I've necer used that stuff so I just don't know.

- Nitro. I live in a condo in a city so spraying is relgated to the roof on temperate days. I'm feeling like that situation is behind me until the spring at least. I feel like my favorite finishes are nitro but I hate the idea of waiiting for a final coat for 7 months.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the input.

 

[Sea Devil]

I think if you just worry about getting the shellac even right now, you'll be fine until weather conditions permit a nitro clear coat (or some amber, or whatever). Just handle the guitar carefully in the meantime.

Shellac may not be the greatest "forever" finish, but it should survive a few months of gentle indoor use.

 

[redddog]

Here’s the mock up….

the shellac seems a bit tacky. Should I wait a few days to dry sand? Could I have screwed myself with too many coats before sanding? Ugh.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Tacky shellac is either old or hasn't given up the alcohol yet...so yes to the extra time.