Sharpening

[maxvintage]

General question about sharpening. I have used the sandpaper and float glass method, and you can get the tools to razor sharp, but it’s kind of a pita. You need a lot of sandpaper and you need to either spray adhesive on the glass or buy adhesive sandpaper, which is fine but gets expensive.

I recently bought a set of diamond stones from Woodcraft, and made a strop from a piece of leather, and that seems to work pretty well although they already seem to be cutting more slowly.

So that leaves waterstones and oil stones. Oil stones seem to be harder to find and less used than the once were, and I’m told by online dudes that they don’t work well on modern steel alloys. Waterstones are a wilderness of possibilities and then you need to buy a lapping stone, and they are kind of messy.

What do people here use?

 

[Freeman Keller]

I do use sticky back sand paper and a piece of counter top material (the sink cut out when we replaced the kitchen counters). Its a little ritual that I do each time I start a new guitar - take the planes apart and make a couple of passes on the sand paper. Basically the "scary sharp" method. I do all my planes and chisels at the same time whether they need it or not.

I'll add that I bought rolls of sticky back sandpaper in the grits shown a long time ago and I haven't used it up but I find it really valuable for many sanding operations. I've got 120 and 400 on my beams for leveling fretboards and frets, and I stick it on small blocks for sanding in tight corners.

 

[badinfinities]

I'm using waterstones with a honing guide. I don't love the mess.

I'm planning on moving to the scary sharp system in the future. Some people just mount the sandpaper on MDF - I'm inclined to go in that direction. Sandpaper and adhesive spray is cheap.

 

[maxvintage]

I'm using waterstones with a honing guide. I don't love the mess.

I'm planning on moving to the scary sharp system in the future. Some people just mount the sandpaper on MDF - I'm inclined to go in that direction. Sandpaper and adhesive spray is cheap.

It is, but then you’ve always got to buy more and you have a sticky residue on whatever you stuck it to that has to be cleaned off. If you spray the stickum it gets on your hands and your bench. Often you have to do this with each grade of sand paper. It definitely works well, and Freeman’s example of the adhesive paper is neater, but I just blew through a whole bunch of adhesive paper restoring this old plane. Big pile of multiple grades of paper into the trash.

I’d like to find something a little less wasteful

 

[Freeman Keller]

Well as I said, I bought three rolls from StewMac a long time ago. Its 45 bucks a roll now, I probably paid 30, I'm sure you can find it for less if you search. It has lasted my entire lutherie career, leveled a lot of necks and frets, and sharpened a few edge tools



I suppose the beam could be used for sharpening tools, its pretty darn flat. However I just leave the four pieces stuck to my hunk of countertop and put that away until I decide to sharpen something else

There is one other group of tools that require sharpening and bit of technique to do it and that is scrapers. I have several flat and curveds ones, and again I like to sharpen them before starting a guitar project. I turn a fairly aggressive burr on a couple for neck carving and such and a pretty light bur on others for finishing wood after sanding.

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

General question about sharpening. I have used the sandpaper and float glass method, and you can get the tools to razor sharp, but it’s kind of a pita. You need a lot of sandpaper and you need to either spray adhesive on the glass or buy adhesive sandpaper, which is fine but gets expensive.

I recently bought a set of diamond stones from Woodcraft, and made a strop from a piece of leather, and that seems to work pretty well although they already seem to be cutting more slowly.

So that leaves waterstones and oil stones. Oil stones seem to be harder to find and less used than the once were, and I’m told by online dudes that they don’t work well on modern steel alloys. Waterstones are a wilderness of possibilities and then you need to buy a lapping stone, and they are kind of messy.

What do people here use?

I used to use waterstones but found they required lapping pretty often. That said, they cut pretty fast and the finish was outstanding

PSA backed microabrasive sheet on a steel honing plate has been good, but I just started using a diamond hone.

 

[telemnemonics]

I use a DMT diamond stone mostly, and have a smiths hard Arkansas somewhere that does the shaving sharp thing.
Lapping a hard Arkansas stone is once a decade.
Synthetics seems to wear faster.

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

I use a DMT diamond stone mostly, and have a smiths hard Arkansas somewhere that does the shaving sharp thing.
Lapping a hard Arkansas stone is once a decade.
Synthetics seems to wear faster.

I've been interested in ceramic stones. I'll look into the Arkansas stones too.

 

[telemnemonics]

I would also not invest in multiple grits unless you are restoring old iron.
Sharpen while still sharp!
In the boat shop I might have been at the sharpening stone 3-6 times a day.
A plane iron used for side projects by an older person could be sharpened once per use and stay very sharp?
How much planing is done to need multiple grits to sharpen?
Just stop in the middle and keep it very sharp!
The lost time stopping is refunded by less effort cutting.
When I had to sharpen multiple times a day I was planing or chiseling 1) sand grain tool dulling teak, 2) WEST epoxy laminates, and 3) hitting some staples in the wood that a good hand forged antique Witherby chisel cut right through but dulled faster when cutting steel.
Those old Witherby chisels have but the tops off hidden nails and screws many times with no chips.

Never tried modern steels for woodworking, only folding knives.

 

[telemnemonics]

I've been interested in ceramic stones. I'll look into the Arkansas stones too.

Ive used ceramics for small gouges.
Not a big fan but I haven’t spent that much time with ceramic.
Not really a carver, they might be the perfect tool for gouges.

For Arkansas, there is hard, soft, and Washita.
Soft Arkansas will get shaving sharp and hard does sharper but will not return from a dull edge.
Depends on your habits I guess, but I prefer a nice big spendy stone over several smaller stones.
I never use a jig or roller for sharpening, figure 8 moving from the legs to hold the angle.

I was also taught this figure 8 method to use the whole length of a longer wider stone, which preserves flatness.
Knives are worse for making a low middle that needs lapping.

 

[charlie chitlin]

I use diamond stones, a real arkansas stone and a cotton wheel with compound.
I can get single sided tools (gouges, chisels, plane blades...) so I can easily shave a stripe up my arm...freehand with no jig.
For some reason, I cannot get double-sided blades (knives) that sharp, and it drives me nuts.
But I have noticed that I can get some, WAY sharper than others, and I can only assume it's the quality of the steel.
If anybody knows a way to identify which steels will take a good edge, I'd be glad to know it.
My EDC is a fancy Kershaw, and I cannot get it as sharp as I can some other blades.

 

[charlie chitlin]

Ive used ceramics for small gouges.
Not a big fan but I haven’t spent that much time with ceramic.
Not really a carver, they might be the perfect tool for gouges.

I teach wood carving and have to keep a LOT of gouges sharp.
I use a white stone at 1500 rpm, then a fine stone (it's grey...I like it), then the burr comes off with a piece of natural Arkansas, then it's finished on a cotton wheel with compound at 1800rpm.
Then I can shave a stripe up my arm.
The middle-schoolers love it.
I was taught by a master and have never found a reason to deviate even a tiny bit from what he taught me.
EVERYBODY who tries one of my gouges looks at me wide-eyed.

 

[maxvintage]

Mr Chitlin I believe you.

I was recently reading one of the Lost Art Press books (about sharpening) and the author makes the point that 150 years ago, sharpening was something everybody knew how to do and could do on a rock or a brick and strop on their blue jeans if need be. Then most everybody forgot how to do it, and now it's presented as an arcane black art that takes highly specialized equipment. Nobody ever taught me how to do it besides you tube and trial and error.

I can get my tools very very sharp. I just want to make it easier and more straightforward.

When I use the sandpaper method, I move up the grits to 2000, with no stropping. That's probably overkill.

 

[Nicko_Lps]

Usually i straighten up my chisels and hand planes on the bench grinder and then follows the type of wetstone we have here, i dont know its name in English:

Those come in plenty in Crete/Greece, California/USA and somewhere in Japan.

Its like a matte stone, not like the bench grinder stones that are gritty, its like a matte marble. Does a great, GREAT job.
I have a big one encased in plywood, about 8" long, 2" thick and 5" wide that my dad bought from Crete like 30+ years ago.

 

[maxvintage]

Usually i straighten up my chisels and hand planes on the bench grinder and then follows the type of wetstone we have here, i dont know its name in English: View attachment 1387831

Those come in plenty in Crete/Greece, California/USA and somewhere in Japan.

Its like a matte stone, not like the bench grinder stones that are gritty, its like a matte marble. Does a great, GREAT job.
I have a big one encased in plywood, about 8" long, 2" thick and 5" wide that my dad bought from Crete like 30+ years ago.

Do you lubricate it when you sharpen? With oil or water?

 

[Nicko_Lps]

Do you lubricate it when you sharpen? With oil or water?

Yes sir, always lubricated but not as i should. Let me explain.

Its a carpentry workshop, oil is strictly forbidden there so i use plain diesel. My dad used diesel with lets say 5% extra oil in it.
The best i can do is use WD-40 which is a poor lube as well, but both WD-40 or diesel wont leave stains or oily residues on me, my hands, my clothes which can ruin a dye-job or sealer/varnish.

Its name in Greek is "Λαδακονο", plain translation oil-wetstone. There should be oil on it, a lets say SAE10 oil or even baby oil.

Even without good lubricant its able to give a blade that can really shave off tiny hairs on my hand better edge from the surgical blades i can find in pharmacy shops.
For sure it will be way better if a proper lubrication is used and then have the blade rubbed in coarse leather.

 

[schmee]

I'm not a sharpening aficionado, (or officianado!) but I have a Japanese water stone I've used for 3 decades. It does the job with no messy oil. I like water because let's face it, the liquid's job is to carry away the debris from the sharpening area and water does it great with ease.

 

[trapdoor2]

I have tried every method known. (well, known to me) Each has its pros and cons.

1. Use a guide, if at all possible.
2. Use lubrication. Oil, water, dish soap, etc.
3. Use a strop afterwards.

For knives (chef, hunting, pocket, etc.) My favorite system is of the Lansky type. The knife is clamped in a holder and the stones are guided across at the correct angle. I stop at ~1000g.

For plane irons and straight chisels, I use the Taylor Toolworks drill press system. Very fast, very simple, very sharp. 220g, then green 0.5 micron compound on the strop. If a finer edge is required, see below. 220g is fine for my most common chiselling tasks. Plane irons get the full Shapton edge.

For Scrapers, a fine file then 40 micron sandpaper on glass. No need for stickum, water between the paper and glass is fine.

Backup and fine tuning, diamond plates, 300/600/1000g + Shapton ceramic/glass stones up to 12,000g

I use the Lee Valley/Veritas guide system. Not perfect, but it works.

I grew up using Arkansas oilstones freehand. It works...but I prefer using a guide. I keep a few Arkansas stones for nostalgia.

 

[charlie chitlin]

I'm starting to think that "lubrication" might not be exactly that.
I'm thinking that water, and especially oil, float/suspend the particles and keep them from clogging the grit.
I just clean my stones in the sink with some soapy water and they work great.
I wouldn't be happy with sandpaper.
Too disposable.
I've had my motley assortment of stones forever.

 

[Bendyha]

Old school here. I use only water stones, and I have dozens of them. The most used stones (about 15) live in a rectangle tub full of water, and have been in there, soaked, for over 20 years now. I top it up as needed - about once a month, and take them all out for a complete wash and water change about twice a year, adding a slosh of hydrogen peroxide to keep any algae from developing. The large, coarse central stone has one flat side for chisels and plane blades, and the other side is for knives and gouges. All the stones behind the central stone are kept flat, and get finer in cut progressively, and those in front are not flat, but also graduate in cut. Right at the front are a selection of various smaller slip stones. About a half of the larger stones are Japanese synthetic stones, the rest are natural stones. Most of the smaller stones are natural. The flat stones are redressed/flattened as needed - perhaps once a year. The non-flat stones also require redressing now and again. I use no guides or jigs for sharpening. Many of the best natural stones I have, I managed to pick up for a pittance at flea markets, car-boot sales and junk shops.