Seth Lover Humbuckers?

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by JL_LI, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. twangjeff

    twangjeff Tele-Afflicted

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    I have a Seth Lover in the neck position of one of my G&Ls and I love it.
     
  2. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Friend of Leo's

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    There's a technical analysis of the 490R and 490T here http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8600/gibson-498t-490r-analysis . The Seth Lover bridge will give you a lot more treble clarity, the neck pickup only slightly more clarity. I don't know when the 490T was conceived of, but its spec'd similar to a Seymour Duncan JB, much higher inductance than an original PAF. If the Seth's are the only thing that looks good on Sam Ash and you have to buy from Sam Ash, I'd do it, but otherwise they're overpriced compared to sets like the BYO Blizzards, which are much the same for a fraction of the price.
     
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  3. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Very good. I have the same amp (Plus version), so I am very familiar with it.

    It's not a very clean amp at any sort of real-world gigging volume, even on the cleanest channel. As you have discovered, the low end has to be dialed back to clean up the sound. And even humbuckers on the lower range of the humbucker output spectrum hit it hard, and are difficult to clean up. The 5:50 was the amp to get for the best clarity. It has more of a classic Fender sounds as its base. The 5:25 has more of a Vox sound as its base.

    It does have a very stiff stock speaker that takes a ton of break in to sound "right," IME. And break in doesn't come easily if you're never cranking it.

    Also, mine tears through power tubes at quite a clip. I'm on my fifth set, and I've definitely not even put 100 hours of play on the amp. I play on the clean channel with low gain and high master 95 percent of the time. Have you replaced your power tubes recently?

    Try running your gain lower and your master higher, and give the thing a high volume workout for 10 or 15 minutes every session to make sure that speaker gets softened up. The amp sounds kind of blocked up (like you can't get enough low end clarity out of it) until then IME.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
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  4. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    This does not sound correct for the 490T. It sounds correct for the 498T, which is indeed a lot like a JB. The 490 R and T are slightly heated up P.A.F. style pickups.

    The 490T is the bridge match to the 490R. It uses the same magnet type and the same wire, just a bit more wire. It's not significantly overwound using thinner wire and a hot magnet, like the 498T is.
     
  5. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    All good suggestions. I've lowered the pickups and raised the pole pieces. The covers aren't potted but are damped by dripping a small amount of wax in at the corners to cut down on spurious resonances. The neck is just about flush with the guard. There's no ring with the Rorshach ink blot pick guard, low enough in fact that I don't use a spring. A piece of polyethylene foam with a cut for the screw to pass through holds a lowered pickup securely and level.
     
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  6. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    i concur with the 490...i love into my supers..but for leads..i must use a Klon CL to extract that edge of break Optimized-southload1 (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
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  7. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    delete..dbl post
     

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  8. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    I just got a pair of power tubes which I'll install this week. It's time. I'm almost up to eight years on the ones that came in the amp. It should be pretty obvious from that how I'm using the amp. I'm not a rocker and I don't play loud. I've found that my Keeley compressor gives me volume from the level control when I need it, but except for the SG, I'm playing single coil guitars and a Gretsch which is nothing like the SG. I like the Express because it puts a little bit of an edge on the tone at the volume I play at. That little bit of edge doesn't have much affect on clarity. With my CS '69 Strat I can hear each note in a chord or double or triple stop. I play finger style which limits how hard I hit the amp. I'm pretty careful about picking when I occasionally use a flat pick. If I drop the gain to 9 o'clock, I have to raise the treble and I'm back where I started, except the highs can cut like a knife, not in a good way. What started this (see post #1) is that I have a gift card to spend at Sam Ash. I don't need another guitar and I don't need another amp. $250 in strings is asinine, especially when I have a source from a renowned manufacturer. From everything posted here so far, Seth Lovers seem to be a consensus choice. If they make the hoped for improvement, great. If not, they have about a $150 resale value. So far as breaking in the speaker, in eight years, its broken in. Thank you for your comments. I'm sure others appreciate them too.
     
  9. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    Superficial, is 61 Zebra in Super RI. jensens...rat on 1 notch ..i was running it wide open..didnt need much to catch this on the edge lead tone




    Ruin..Super Reverb..no pedals..dimed for leads..right on edge of breakup..i love playing this song..who says the fender reissues suck ??!!




    Country Mile- 335 alnico2 into 73 pro reverb weber f150's- Mad Professor Simble pedal(d style clone




    Tracks, is 61 zebra & 490 back n forth into Artist 3203...t75/vintage mic'd..no pedals..strait in..just put the guitars on top eachother

     
  10. bo

    bo Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've had Seths in my Les Paul since 2001. They aren't going anywhere. Well worth the price.
     
  11. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Friend of Leo's

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    Oh, you're right. So OP has the 490T and 490R, I really don't think the Seth Lovers are a worthwhile upgrade. It almost replacing same with same. Both have AlNiCo 2 magnets, both have nearly the same DC resistance which means nearly the same inductance. But there's a lot to be said for confidence, if OP things the 490's sound lifeless, maybe a pickup set with Seth Lover's name attached will "come to life".
     
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  12. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    am primarily SG player..you would think i would have 10...long time ago...490/490 in faded & 61 Zebra in SGJ..internet guru hated guitars...are the only 2 i use..they are on peoples country..metal...pop...even a P&W records..,but i committed the unpardonable sin..i recorded for them with no pedals on P & W CD..how is Edge jr with 12 delays & a 5k PRS gonna cop my tone with a joyo into the inexperienced sound man at the board who doesn't play an instrument, who favors the WL strumming a capo'd guitar in the mix up front..after they changed an original songs key to suit the out of key pastors wife singing backup while the drummer is in a cage playing off timing cause his IEM inst at a correct level & the bass guy doesn't even know the soundman muted his bass cause the 2 organist are left hand heavy hitters..am not anti anything..but that experience when they had me play along to a concert as they released the CD . was the worst music experience ever..they changed the Key ! to the song ..how can you do that....the WL was not the singer on CD (they hired us my friends studio to record an original P & W CD..we poured our best into it) they even made us go to their church & record the choir..they treated us like crap...no one was in key & they fought over mic's....so they presented this concert as an event & fundraiser..but hired my studio guy me &another musician to play ..but we had to stand off to the side while Edge Jr stood center stage....they changed the key 15 min before the show on a few songs..i could care less...but you cant pull a minor to major shift on emotional songs to suit a singer...you can but ..everything will change....the mix was horrible..but the WL..edge Jr..stood in the center & thought we were at live aid or something..what i do..i comped the best i could..got out of there asap...i did stick up for using my amp tho..its what i recorded with..i treated this as serious as any other gig....amazingly..year later..they approached studio to do another..declined
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  13. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Tele-Meister

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    How close are the BYO to the Seth Lovers according to the data? I've tried comparing the graphs on http://www.echoesofmars.com/pickup_data/viewer/ but they are in different scale. The neck inductance is close but the bridge seems hotter on the BYO.
     
  14. Danb541

    Danb541 Tele-Meister

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    The OP said this "My tone controls don’t filter out highs when I drop the volume. I like the roll off on both volume and tone controls"
    Question, do your volume pots have treble bleeds wired in? If yes, take them out see how your pickups sound.
    Typically, a treble bleed is attached on your volume pots. It looks like a capacitor (also has a small resister usually) an is wired on the volume pot center lug and outer lug. Google image "guitar treble bleed" to see what they look like.
     
  15. NiceTele

    NiceTele Tele-Afflicted

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    A guy I jam with, replaced the stock pickups in his SG with DiMArzio 36th Anniversary pups, and that guitar sounds really sweet. I had a Seth in the bridge of my 335 a few years back, but it didn't sound much different to the stock pickup.
     
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  16. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Friend of Leo's

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    They differences are trivial. The inductance of the BYO bridge is slightly higher, but the loaded resonant peaks were both right about 2.5kHz, which can be attributed to variations in the capacitance. Both the BYO and Seth neck pickups have peaks around 2.8kHz. Both have nickel silver parts, a real wood spacer, and vintage correct hookup wire. Given that the BYO set costs $70 and the Seth Lover set costs $220, it would be absurd to spend $150 more on account of any trivial detail that sets the two apart, including the detail that the Seth Lover isn't wax potted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  17. driver8

    driver8 Tele-Meister

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    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  18. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Tele-Meister

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    There's actually an ebay store which sells the Seth Lover set for $166, not sure if it's legit: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338148343&icep_item=324062672058

    Another option is the Bootstrap Vintage Cleans set for $80: https://bootstrappickups.com/collections/humbucker/products/bootstrap-buckers-vintage-cleans
    As a bonus you could get these with different magnets and unpotted.

    I received the following specs from Bootstrap:
    Bridge inductance: ~5.6H @100Hz inductance, 96pF capacitance @100Khz, 8.5K Ohms; Neck inductance: ~4.2H @100Hz inductance, 108pF capacitance @100Khz, 7.2K Ohms

    I'm considering getting the Bootstrap set, @Antigua Tele do you think it would be pretty close to the Seth Lover set?
     
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  19. Antigua Tele

    Antigua Tele Friend of Leo's

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    That Bootstrap set looks really good. It would be nice to see pics of the top and bottom, but the specs are described sound really on the mark. The thing is, even if the inductance doesn't match precisely, it's less important with steel poled pickups because the eddy currents ensure that you will get a low Q factor, which blurs out the resonant peak, and on top of that you have to account for varied capacitance in the guitar cable. If you take into account that flat high end and the margin for error, they're effectively the same as Seth Lovers if you opt for the AlNiCo 2. I might have to order a set myself, but I have to figure out what guitar I'd stick them into.

    Bootstrap even says that an unpotted version is available if requested prior to ordering, although I've done objective testing of unpotted pickups and haven't found any evidence that the microphonic voltage output could come anywhere close to being audible. I even attached a Antiquity to the head stock of a guitar, which vibrates a lot more than the body itself, and still the maximum voltage output was close to the noise floor of 10mV, so in situ I doubt you'd do better than 2mV, and that's competing with an overall output closer to 500mV, when strummed briskly with a pick.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
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  20. LooseCannon

    LooseCannon Tele-Meister

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    Yes, I wrote in my previous post that you can get them unpotted, at the moment there's a 1-2 weeks lead time for unpotted sets.
    I've actually listened to some comparisons of potted vs unpotted pickups and there is a slight difference in the high end:
     
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