Selling via PayPal "gift"

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by elicross, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. elicross

    elicross Poster Extraordinaire

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    I guess I understand a seller's reason for requesting payment via "PayPal gift" -- if you represent the payment as a gift instead of payment for goods or services, the seller doesn't have to pay fees on the transaction, right?

    But isn't that a terrible idea for the buyer? What if the seller never sends the item? The buyer wants his money back...but now the seller's ignoring his E-mails. How is the buyer going to file a complaint with PayPal? I'd assume if you tried to invoke Purchase Protection on a transaction you told PayPal was a gift, they'd laugh in your face.

    I'm sure most of the sellers who insist on "PayPal gift" payment are just trying to "stick it to The Man" a bit and have no intention of cheating the buyer. But...if I was a dishonest seller who wanted to take a bunch of money from multiple buyers and never send them anything in return, I'd insist they pay me via "PayPal gift." Either way, I'd never knowingly give up the only protection I had when buying something from a stranger over the Internet.
     
  2. mickeydean

    mickeydean Friend of Leo's

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    it's fraud. i don't commit fraud on request. in fact, i don't do requests.
     
  3. SackvilleDan

    SackvilleDan Tele-Holic

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    I've heard a few stories on other "Gear" forums where PayPal has sent messages to some of its users that they determined were using gift payments to conduct sales transactions... there were serious warnings and threats of account cancellation...

    Caveat Emptor
     
  4. chrisgblues

    chrisgblues Tele-Afflicted

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    If it's not a gift, it's not a gift. Saying so constitutes fraud which is illegal (in most countries). A seller who insists on this is NOT reputable. JMHO.
     
  5. elicross

    elicross Poster Extraordinaire

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    Agreed. If a seller is willing to defraud PayPal, you have to wonder whether he or she would treat the buyer any better. Will you get what you ordered? Will it be shipped in a timely fashion? Will it be as described? The one thing you can count on is that, if the answer to any of those questions is "No" -- there's nothing you can do about it if the seller decides not to make it right.

    So even if you buy into the ol' "It's okay to rip off a big, faceless company" thing, you're asking for trouble if you go along with it. Even if you took a dispute to court, you might have trouble prevailing, because you wouldn't have what they call "clean hands" -- you participated in cheating PayPal of their fees, so why should you be treated fairly in this transaction?
     
  6. detuned

    detuned Tele-Holic

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    Yah. Won't do it either.

    Figure out how much to charge PayPal included, & charge that much. Anything else smells shady to me...
     
  7. 68 Shovelhead

    68 Shovelhead Tele-Afflicted

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    I won't even inquire about stuff sold like that. If the seller isn't going to offer me a secure deal, I won't mess with 'em.
    Asking a buyer to just send you cash is as rediculous as asking a buyer to send his merchandise before he's paid, obviously bad business either way. If sellers don't wan't to pay broker fees necisary for doing business online, they should sell locally to a smaller audience.
     
  8. tazzboy

    tazzboy Former Member

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    I know people don't like paying 3% transaction fee, but if you do use the gift option and the buyer reneges on your deal you are pretty well screwed.
     
  9. Stubee

    Stubee Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Yep. Absolutely no reason to do that.

    Bought a nice .22 some time ago from an individual on a rifle site that's as 'upstanding' as TDPRI. About like buying a guitar in the TDPRI classified (done that too w. never a problem). The guy requested 'gift option' as he didn't want to 'pay the man for his money!' etc., I told him no but that I'd split costs (all of $15) He got all lathered up. I did the regular PayPal and sent him the $15 to shut him up, with a nice note thanking him for the nice rifle blah blah. I'm a nice guy but not a complete idiot.

    I never got the rifle nor any more communication until the 'seller' finally disclosed he'd decided 'not to ship it'. Weeks later I got my PP $ back.

    No idea what his issues were nor do I care but if I'd done PP 'gift' I believe he'd have had my $ and I woulda really had to start chasing things down.
     
  10. elicross

    elicross Poster Extraordinaire

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    Who knows what his deal was, but it could be he never shipped the rifle because he never intended to. You were supposed to just send the money as a PayPal "gift," get nothing in return, then be SOL -- but you messed up his plan, and he had to find some other way to buy his meth. :D

    Interesting that you say the rifle site where you found this guy's ad was as reputable as TDPRI; it was a couple of classifieds in TDPRI that prompted this thread. I'd never seen anyone request "PayPal gift" payment before -- then I saw it in two different TDPRI classifieds in two days. If TDPRI has a stated rule against this, people are breaking it.
     
  11. flyingbanana

    flyingbanana Poster Extraordinaire

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    Well...I can see the seller's point though about trying to avoid outrageous fees. It's not the most above board things a guy can do, but maybe it's just that simple.

    Now, come next January, Paypal will report that payment as profit to the IRS. I wonder if a gift would not be reported...
     
  12. greggorypeccary

    greggorypeccary Friend of Leo's

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    Paypal provides a service, if you don't like what they charge, don't use it. It's a cost of doing business, just add the fee to your selling price. If you're selling a pedal for about $100, just pay the $3 already. If you want $500 for the amp, price it at $515. It all comes out in the wash, what with haggling and whatnot, anyways.

    I remember when gas stations used to have a cash price and a credit price. Then it was ruled that they can't charge more when people use a credit card.

    Personally, when I'm selling, I figure out what shipping and fees will cost me and I set a flat price. I pretty much only buy from folks who do the same. Makes for an easy transaction. Whenever I see "you pay the fees" I move on. Why should I pay for you to have the convenience of an instant secure payment.
     
  13. Commodore 64

    Commodore 64 Friend of Leo's

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    It's a service. Paypal is very convenient. They deserve to be paid for the service.
     
  14. jkingma

    jkingma Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I remember when that happened, a lot of truck stops started giving out vouchers for a free dinner in the restaurant for anyone who paid cash.
     
  15. KeefRiffhard

    KeefRiffhard Tele-Meister

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    +1
     
  16. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Since PayPal is not a financial institution they do not have to abide by laws that govern financial institutions.

    And, all the while they act like a financial institution.

    Everyone who replied to this thread please step forward and report how many transactions they have conducted with/thru PayPal.

    It always astounds me how people step right up to defend a corporation.
     
  17. Colo Springs E

    Colo Springs E Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I detest Paypal and haven't used it in at least 2-3 years (bad experience), but I would think you're right, that the buyer would be giving up any protection the service normally would offer.
     
  18. chrisgblues

    chrisgblues Tele-Afflicted

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    Okay I'll take the bait.

    I'm going to estimate that I've probably done about 60-70 Paypal transactions (mostly as a buyer, but sometimes as a seller). I'm not sure what you're point is, but personally, I like being able to use Paypal because I can find great deals on Ebay and pay for them with my credit card or bank account, but because it goes through the Paypal service, the seller never sees my card number or my account number. To me, that's "totally" worth the 3% or whatever that Paypal charges.

    I can conceivably understand how some people might not think the service fee is worth it, but it comes down to how much personal value you put on having a secure transaction. It has a lot of value to me.

    I don't blindly support corporations, I just know what makes my life easier and what doesn't. Paypal does. JMHO.
     
  19. Commodore 64

    Commodore 64 Friend of Leo's

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    I don't see how Paypal charging a fee is so bad. Every credit card company charges a fee to the retailer (many more than 3%), and they get freakin' interest for lending money...insane interest. I probably do over 100 paypal transactions per year (I don't see why that matters either).

    Paypal doesn't get that interest. They only get your 3%. I'm all for screwing large corporations that fleece consumers. That's why I use paypal instead of a credit card whenever possible.
     
  20. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

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    It always astounds me how people think they should be entitled to services for free, like it's some kind of right.

    Paypal doesn't need defending, nor do they need to be attacked. It's a convenient service they offer for a fee. If you don't like it, you're not compelled to pay them. Send money by another method like Western Union or money order. But you have to pay for that too. Or send a check and have the seller wait for it to clear and hope he holds up his end of the bargain.
     
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