Seeing a lot of talk about the Elvis movie

Midgetje94

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I guess it’s just me.. but I’m not a big fan. I get he “paved” the way for rock. But blatantly stole a lot of his stuff. I get “influences” but Hound Dog? That’s alright momma? He and Sun Records stole those from old black blues singers (not to mention his “hound dog” sucks in comparison)

He got a lot of his playing style from Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

I get he was one of the first in the TV scene and his provocative imagery took him a long way. But anyway I digress. Maybe I’m missing something?

So what’s your appeal to him? What do you like and not like about him?
 

Midgetje94

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To be fair I am a HUGE fan of the “Jump Blues” era. So I may be a tab bias. But look at the early British groups, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Clapton. They were all influenced by the Delta Blues. Some have covered songs. Some have been called a “glorified blues cover band” lol. But that seems a world different than using the political state to steal music from a select group of artists
 

Skully

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I guess it’s just me.. but I’m not a big fan. I get he “paved” the way for rock. But blatantly stole a lot of his stuff. I get “influences” but Hound Dog? That’s alright momma? He and Sun Records stole those from old black blues singers (not to mention his “hound dog” sucks in comparison)

He got a lot of his playing style from Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

I get he was one of the first in the TV scene and his provocative imagery took him a long way. But anyway I digress. Maybe I’m missing something?

So what’s your appeal to him? What do you like and not like about him?

Stole? You don't seem to understand how music influences work.

"Hound Dog" was written by two Jewish guys. So someone else recorded it before Elvis. It was an unattractive, morbidly obese woman who dressed like a man and sang it in a rough blues style. Those are a lot of reasons right there why it wasn't even a hit before you even get to the color of her skin. Presley's version of "Hound Dog" -- recorded for RCA, not Sun -- is significantly different. It was more influenced by Freddie Bell & The Bellboys, whom he saw perform the song in Vegas.



If not for Elvis, "That's All Arlight" would be forgotten today. Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup got screwed out of the royalties, but that had nothing to do with Elvis. If he had better contracts, Elvis' cover would've been a massive windfall for him.
 
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Midgetje94

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Stole? You don't seem to understand how music influences work.

"Hound Dog" was written by two Jewish guys. So someone else recorded it before Elvis. It was an unattractive, morbidly obese woman who dressed like a man and sang it in a rough blues style. Those are a lot of reasons right there why it wasn't even a hit before you even get to the color of her skin. Presley's version of "Hound Dog" -- recorded for RCA, not Sun -- is significantly different. It was more influenced by Freddie Bell & The Bellboys, whom he saw perform the song in Vegas.



If not for Elvis, "That's All Arlight" would be forgotten today. Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup got screwed out of the royalties, but that had nothing to do with Elvis. If he had better contracts, Elvis cover would've been a massive windfall for him.

I know RCA was the ones that recorded that. But Sun Records was the one who originally called Elvis up and started the ball.

And exactly my point. Covers are one thing. But to claim the song and not pay the royalties. That’s stolen not influenced. I know he wasn’t the first to do so.
 

Midgetje94

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But I guess that came across as more of an attack on Elvis than I intended. I’m not putting all the blame on him. Sorry if that was unclear.

That’s why I said I may be bias because I am the fan of the old blues artists. But overall I seem to have missed why everyone is crazy for him.
 

blueruins

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Ummm. I realize that this is how the information has been presented but seriously think about it.
An artist adopts the styles they enjoy and are influenced by. They are limited by their natural abilities, exposure and intelligence.
Do you really think some podunk little kid hatched a plan to steal music from black artists and repackage them with his beautiful white face and groin?
Elvis was just doing what he loved and what worked with his voice according to the adults who were in control of the recording facilities and industry.
The chicken and egg quandary can go back forever. Did Rosetta appropriate the white artists instrument by using an electric guitar? Was the electric guitar stolen from the Spanish or Italians who invented the classical guitar. Who did they “steal” from?
The convention of the day was to record popular songs written by others.
Racism certainly was institutionalized at that point in history but it doesn’t inform the motives of every historical achievement or decision of that time or any time since.
These backward ideas are divisive and rob every personal achievement of merit.
 

Skully

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I know RCA was the ones that recorded that. But Sun Records was the one who originally called Elvis up and started the ball.

And exactly my point. Covers are one thing. But to claim the song and not pay the royalties. That’s stolen not influenced. I know he wasn’t the first to do so.

Once again, you don't understand. Elvis had nothing to do with Crudup not getting royalties. That was an issue with music publishers Hill & Range. And "claim" the song? Presley recorded the song.
 

schmee

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Many artists don't write their best songs.
OTOH Many artists write songs that not many people really like or want to hear.
Most artists got screwed about royalties and publishing rights etc back then and still today.
If someone wrote a hit song, the record company took the publishing rights by contract, which pays more than the author gets. They are/were masters at screwing the artist in many ways.
Everyone just performs what works for them. Why is there a problem with that?

Elvis broke ground in many ways. 70+ years later they are still making music about him. I think that says something... whether we like it or not.
 

JeffroJones

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The movie seems to be a re-adjustment of the Elvis myth for modern times, is all.
Like war, the truth is the first casualty of these films.
The genre seems to be "historical fantasy", which is OK if you're upfront about it.
But the movie is called "ELVIS".
It should be called "FANTASY ELVIS"
Just saying. 🍔
 

1955

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A few of the guys at Sun all sang the First Assembly Of God hymn book. You had stuff like Jake Hess and The Blackwood Brothers, The Golden Jubilee Quartet (Golden Gate Quartet) out of Norfolk, VA (hinting at Rockabilly and Doo Wop,) Hillbilly stars on the Hayride and Opry, Pop, and Standard singers like Sinatra, Como, Cole, Boone, Mario Lanza (tenor from Philly,) Western Swing, Little Richard (who cited Rosetta Tharpe,) Fats Domino/Smiley Lewis/Huey Smith with a little of the New Orleans flavor, for starters.

Add to that the beguiling kiss of burlesque, the corny, clownish mess of vaudeville, the carny sideshow, cabaret, Western pictures, comic books, codependency, self-destructiveness, post-Great Depression and WWII work ethic, promise and prejudice, the Southern dichotomy somewhere between fear, gentility, and self-reliance, just the tip of the iceberg.

James Brown, Buddy Holly, Johnny Ace, Clara Ward, Brook Brenton, Ricky Nelson, Billy Ward, Jackie Wilson, Chuck Berry, Johnny Burnette, Roy Hamilton, etc., they all bleed red, but their fifteen minutes was every bit as weird and unique as Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, The Prisonaires, Rufus Thomas, Charlie Rich, Charlie Feathers, Howling Wolf, Carl Perkins, B.B. King, Jerry Lee, and Car Mann.

It’s easy now to trace back a star like Bill Hailey, or a regional hit like Warren Smith, to their most prominent influences, but even within the hotly contested pantheon of Blues hierarchy, pesky scrappiness today is more a reflection of Wikipedia research and YouTube commentary than the colorless lens of music, which, whether through intention or ignorance, transcends context in favor of mood.
 

Recce

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I guess it’s just me.. but I’m not a big fan. I get he “paved” the way for rock. But blatantly stole a lot of his stuff. I get “influences” but Hound Dog? That’s alright momma? He and Sun Records stole those from old black blues singers (not to mention his “hound dog” sucks in comparison)

He got a lot of his playing style from Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

I get he was one of the first in the TV scene and his provocative imagery took him a long way. But anyway I digress. Maybe I’m missing something?

So what’s your appeal to him? What do you like and not like about him?
Your missing something.
 

Midgetje94

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I really haven't been to a cinema to see a movie for a long time now.
After this thread maybe I'll see this one on the big screen.
Movies have gotten so damn expensive. Drinks popcorn tickets. I’ll make a list of movies and wait for Redbox.
 

burntfrijoles

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I guess it’s just me.. but I’m not a big fan. I get he “paved” the way for rock. But blatantly stole a lot of his stuff. I get “influences” but Hound Dog? That’s alright momma? He and Sun Records stole those from old black blues singers (not to mention his “hound dog” sucks in comparison)

He got a lot of his playing style from Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

I get he was one of the first in the TV scene and his provocative imagery took him a long way. But anyway I digress. Maybe I’m missing something?

So what’s your appeal to him? What do you like and not like about him?
Where to begin...
People have become famous covering older artists material for years. Each generation of musicians "borrow" (not steal) from their predecessors. They all are standing on the shoulders of someone. Did Zeppelin steal from Willie Dixon? Did Chuck borrow from T-Bone, or SRV from Albert? Hmmm
His style was nothing like Sister Rosetta. He had his own style vocally and performance.
If you think otherwise fine but don't misrepresent how unique he was at the time. That's almost disingenuous.
 




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