School me: DRRI v. Pro Junior

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by motmot, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    It isn't only the power tubes. It's also the preamp design, plus speakers.

    As is noted - the Pro is really a Tweed preamp tacked to a fixed bias power section.

    DR is a BF design with lowish preamp gain, and a scooped midrange. That preamp is designed for moderate gain and smoothness, premised around the reverb and tremolo. The sweetness of the DR is the power tube breakup.

    The Pro - turn it up, like a Champ you're getting preamp and power amp gain with lots of mids, coupled with a dirty-gerty power section. Small output trans, squawky speaker.

    These two amps are very different in every important respect. Forget the EL84 vs 6V6 - it's pretty minor compared to preamp and output transformer/speaker.

    You could fit a mid control get a cutout ort lift to boost mids on the Normal channel - fit it with Brown Fender or Marshall preamp valies. That would dirty it up a great deal, similar to the hot boost switch on Mesas.

    Changing the values to Brown would get you somewhere Marshally.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  2. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

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    IIRC... the Pro Jr's speaker plugs into a standard jack on the underside of the chassis.

    IMO... bring both amps to the gig but plug the speaker of the DRRI (1x12, 8 ohm, larger cabinet) into the output of the Pro Jr... effectively replacing the 1x10 small cabinet. You'll get the tone of the Pro Jr from the larger cabinet/1x12" speaker of the DRRI. It will naturally take on a bigger sound with more coverage.

    A perfect match (8ohms replacing 8ohms) without the need to buy anything new or modify anything. Plus you have a spare amp on hand just in case ;)

    Are you confusing the PRO JR with the Blues JR?
    The Pro Jr is a special little amp loaded with raw tone, highly regarded with many producers and engineers.

    Granted, the Pro Jr and DRRI don't sound anything like each other.... mid focus vs mid scoop so it really does depend on the tone you prefer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  3. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

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    IMO... the circuit has a lot more to do with the tone of an amp than the power tube choice does.

    Case in point... a Pro Jr and a Blues Jr don't sound ANYTHING like each other and neither sound like a VOX despite the use of EL84's.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  4. jsnwhite619

    jsnwhite619 Friend of Leo's

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    If you really love the Pro Jr sound and think it's an amp you are going to keep and enjoy, a bigger cabinet and speaker can take those things miles further. When I was gigging with a band pretty steady a few years ago, I built a bigger Blues Jr sized cabinet for mine and stuck a Ragin Cajun in it. Nobody believes it's a stock PJ amp in there anymore, and I've had several people who wanted to buy it from me. I've even built 5e3 sized cabs and tried it with 12" speakers. Pro Jrs are great sounding amps that make do in a tiny cabinet. They can really knock your socks off in a bigger setup.
     
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  5. Vibrolux59

    Vibrolux59 TDPRI Member

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    No disagreement with your statement that there are differences in the three amps mentioned but none of them sound anything like the popular Fender amps with 6V6s or 6L6s. EL84 tubes have a compressed early breakup you don't get with the larger bottle tubes. Unless you play clean you might not notice the difference.
     
  6. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei Tele-Holic

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    ^^This seems like the best advice. I have a Ragin Cajun speaker in my PJ and it sounds great (just in the stock cabinet). Super loud, noticably louder than the stock speaker.

    The other option is to run the PJ into a separate 112 cabinet. I have also done this and it sounds really, really good. Amazingly good. Actually, investing in a good 112 extension cabinet is one of the best investments I ever made. It allows you so much versatility in swapping speakers, using different heads, etc. As an aside, a couple months ago I posted about this. By some random coincidence, I had a Pro Jr, Blues Jr, and Princeton Reverb all in my house at the same time. I took turns running each of them into the same 112 cab with a Jenson speaker. I wanted to just compare the amps themselves, and eliminate the variables of cabinet size and speaker choice. Of the 3 amps, the PJ sounded the best, even better than the Princeton Reverb. Sounded like a freight train. So good that I might remove the PJ chassis and mount it permanently in the big 112 cabinet.

    Here is what I posted a few months ago.
    https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/fender-amp-experiment.505357/#post-3497806
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  7. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    DRRI no questions about it.. Those EL- 34 and EL- 84 valves are just not Fender sounding.
     
  8. ahiddentableau

    ahiddentableau Tele-Meister

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    To come out and say loudly and clearly what's been suggested by many of the previous replies: if you really like the Pro Jr., that's a magical thing, and you should take every possible step to make it work for you. Most players go through amps like regular people change their underpants. It sounds like you've found an amp you love right at the start. That's kind of a precious thing. And if you really love the amp, you're probably never going to love your DR as much. That's just how this stuff works for most people. Everybody has their "number 1".

    My vote is with the suggestion that you try the Pro Jr. through bigger cabs and more efficient speakers. You can try it with the speaker in your DR first (I seem to remember the stock Eminence being really bright and loud when I tried one).

    Another possibility is to get your preamp character from an amp-in-a-box style pedal and play through the DR. There are plenty of mid-forward designs out there, and many of them are quite good and can be had for not much money. I know Joyo makes knock-offs of the Tech 21 Character series. You could pick up the 57 Deluxe model and try it into the DR. It just might give you some of the thickness you're looking for.
     
  9. Durtdog

    Durtdog Poster Extraordinaire

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    I alternately gig my DRRI and Pro Junior IV. If I had to pick one of them, it would be the Pro Junior, I just love the tone of it. I play it with a large horn band, although it is miked.

    Interestingly, I installed the PJ chassis into a Mojotone cabinet with an Emi GB128...and after a month, I put it back in the original cab with the stock Jensen alnico. Just something about that combo does it for me.

    If you like the PJ, use it, lots of players do. Bob Britt plays guitar for Delbert McClinton, uses 2 Pro Juniors and sounds great.
     
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  10. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    A Blues Jr, Pro JR etc amp with EL84 power tubes is just a different sound than 6V6's. Evidently you like that sound. I like that sound to some extent but I'm a 6V6 guy all the way.
    There are many amps out there with more volume/headroom with EL84's. I suggest you just get one of those in the 30 watt range. Peavey Classic 30, Z amp of some sort etc. Beware though that some of these amps aren't as loud as their rating implies. A DR is rated at about 22 watts. A Peavey Delta Blues is supposed to be 30 watts with 4 EL84's. Having had both in a 5 piece band mix, the Peavey would not keep up at times. The DR is never over 3 on the dial. i think today the Peavey would keep up though, we were a louder band 10 years ago. But for comparison, watts doesn't necessarily = volume.

    The other thing to consider is, maybe you just like heavy midrange tone, or maybe it cuts through better in a band mix for you. The tiny cabinet on a Pro Jr is not very deep etc, which is likely part of that tone. Have you ever plugged your DRRI into the Pro Jr box/speaker and tried it?
     
  11. motmot

    motmot TDPRI Member

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    Again, thx for the thoughts, suggestions, feedback.
    Here’s another possibly crazy idea: can I use my Pignose 7-100 with the DRRI?
     
  12. Crawldaddy

    Crawldaddy Tele-Holic

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    Tweak the EQ on your DRRI such that you are around 4 for trebles, and 5 for bass.

    Then throw a Joyo American Sound pedal in front of it.
     
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  13. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    To me, that's what makes all the difference, hence I got a Princeton with 2 6V6s.
     
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  14. Alter

    Alter Tele-Meister

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    In my opinion, if into small, giggable fender amps, having a princeton reverb and a pro reverb has you covered.

    Deluxe reverb is great, more headroom, but about double the weight of them both..

    A bigger cab or speaker does wonders with these amps (champ too!), but give them some time stock first, fender guys have been at it for a long time and they know their stuff..
     
  15. ButterScotchPH

    ButterScotchPH Tele-Meister

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    lets face it just buy a second Pro. Case closed ;-) And a third...
     
  16. milocj

    milocj Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    One way to get more mids out of the DR is to turn the treble and bass controls way down. Since the mid-range has a fixed resistor you sort of "subtractively" increase the mids. It won't make the DR sound just like the Pro Jr, but it may get you close enough for the gigs that you need the DR for.
     
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  17. motmot

    motmot TDPRI Member

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    Again, many thanks for all these ideas. I’m taking the DRRI (instead of the Pro Jr) to a rehearsal tonight & will try the EQ tweaks.
     
  18. richey88

    richey88 Friend of Leo's

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    I gigged my Pro Jr. IV this weekend. Was actually somewhere that miked us all up (what a treat), but I still couldn't get past halfway up on the PJIV. Sounded really good! Good luck with your quest.
     
  19. MrHamburger

    MrHamburger Tele-Holic

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    I own a Pro Jr. if you want to get loud a 1x12 or 2x12 cab will will get the job done.
    Also, a good range master pedal for single note play will help you be heard.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  20. d-rock

    d-rock Tele-Meister

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    Any luck after rehearsal?
     
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