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Saving Harley-Davidson?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. Anacharsis

    Anacharsis Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Sadly, not how it works any more. I'm 48, and the generation below mine, when you account for inflation, is not seeing higher incomes. BMW can sell (and increasingly, lease - which helps enable those higher prices) to the top decile.
     
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  2. archtop_fjk

    archtop_fjk Tele-Holic

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. MarkieMark

    MarkieMark Friend of Leo's

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  4. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    Gold is the fundamental constant for past, present, and future relative worth, going back to ancient Egypt. If you relate anything to the cost of gold, you get the true value, on purpose. That's why gold is what it is.
     
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  5. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

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    I assume that you're not paid in gold...
     
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  6. CaptainCrunch

    CaptainCrunch Tele-Meister

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    I don’t know what gold has to do with anything, but if you replaced it in that statement with “Chuck-E-Cheese tokens” and everyone agreed with you, it would be equally as true.

    It’s a good conductor, and doesn’t tarnish, but it has no inherent value.
     
  7. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    I am aware of some attempts out there . Instant torque . The only problems to solve are weight and use time , and they may have already been solved . I have not kept up on Trials technology .
     
  8. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    Salaries, all else being unchanged, will track with gold over the next 10 years, 100 years, 1000 years. So yes, in a way, our wages is a function of gold prices, or at least indicative. If a Buick cost 15k in 1988, and it costs 40k in 2020, its cheaper in 2020, because gold moved from $420 an ounce, to $1900 an ounce in the same period. Cost of living, inflation, debt servicing, etc, are all baked into the price of gold. Gold is THE measure of relative wealth and wages. A popular example used for years, is a full suit of clothing for a professional man costs about an ounce of gold - in 2500 BC, 1066 AD, 1492 AD, 2020 AD, 2254 AD....and so on. Now, my Levi's and Chuck Taylors wouldn't qualify ;)
     
  9. MarkieMark

    MarkieMark Friend of Leo's

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    Trouble is, as if good batteries werent enough of an expensive solution-
    Throw in a bunch of titanium and carbon fiber to get things down to fighting weight and this stuff gets expensive fast!

    But performance?
    I'd totally like to take a ride on either the pro level MX or trials models. They look like a blast. Agree on the runtime limitations, but still...
     
  10. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yeah, I agree, but still see a little disparity. But if you look at the housing industry, millennials are creating huge demand, driving prices up, and paying for it. It's not the same everywhere.

    I have friends that cannot go to their favorite vacation spots any more because the millennials have driven the prices up and are willing to pay. The business owners apologize and say it's just business. They can get the money and stay full so they do.

    We're also talking about electric bikes, which no one really needs, yet who is paying for them?
     
  11. KS6V

    KS6V TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    I wonder how much home built and custom built motorcycles have cut into HD's market. Comparison to Fender. I'll probably never buy a new American Fender, but I will put together several partscasters. Same can be done and is being done with Harley like motorcycles.
     
  12. Anacharsis

    Anacharsis Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Sure, I understand all that. I don't want to suggest that you're totally off base or anything.

    Still, as a measure, they have less income, inflation adjusted, than previous generations. And like other generations, they have a top income decile that is in no way representative of the greater whole (and can heat up a few housing markets in places they find trendy). They are definitely more into travel and less into buying physical items. My wife and I rented a house for a couple of years from a nice divorced man in his 60s who was retiring to Arizona. The place was full of nicer traditional solid hardwood furniture - formal dining room set, armoires, console tables, oak desks, sleigh bed, coffee tables, etc. He couldn't find anyone to buy any of it for more than Goodwill prices. Generally, Millennials won't pay for that kind of stuff. Older generations already got their houses furnished. Industry reports I've read say that as a demographic, Millennials don't buy big diamond engagement rings or gold jewelry, either. The housing thing is true in some markets - but as recently as early this year, I saw headlines all about how Millennials can't buy - and most still cannot. Many of those that can got there by living with their parents (to much unearned, IMO, derision) to save a down payment, and even with rock bottom mortgage rates, have bought themselves into being a bit "house poor" (something so many of my X-er friends did, but I managed to avoid).

    They are interested in electric bikes because they are interested in an eco-friendly lifestyle. But that doesn't mean they have the cash be completely price insensitive.
     
  13. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Will Harley electric bikes still have loud pipes? ( asking for a friend )
     
  14. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've read they did something to give it a characteristic sound in the drive train (LiveWire). Not sure of the Serial 1.
     
  15. MarkieMark

    MarkieMark Friend of Leo's

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    The livewire is pretty quiet, but does have a bit of a "howl" I would call it.
    I am not certain it was intentional.

    Fun ride though. I'd be more likely to consider it at about half that price point. Expensive toy!
     
  16. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    "We now know that the Milwaukee brand will actually dive into its history to give the Livewire a truly unique sound. In fact, the company confirmed that the model will come equipped with a customizable note function and a variety of engine sounds to choose from, accessible via the onboard computer."
     
  17. tery

    tery Doctor of Teleocity

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    $29,799 - and up .
     
  18. MarkieMark

    MarkieMark Friend of Leo's

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    Fair enough.
    The one I test ride most likely had that silliness turned off I reckon.
     
  19. John Backlund

    John Backlund Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    When Harley suddenly ditched their upcoming streetfighter styled 'Bronx' model, I sensed that they may have shot themselves in the foot for the last time.

    I don't know if it would have sold well in the face of some very strong competition, but it at least showed that they were willing to put up a fight and start to expand their line beyond their traditional big cruisers and heavy tourers. But I guess not...again.
     
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  20. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    Probably a good choice where to put their money. Their own market research likely showed it wouldn't pay. But electric toys have greater interest. Let's see if they screw that up.
     
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