Safe finishing methods

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by aarongreen123, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. aarongreen123

    aarongreen123 Tele-Meister

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    Gents,

    Hi guys I am new to building and I'm researching all kinds of things including finishing. It seems like nitro is the most popular option but there are also lots of horrors stories about people blowing themselves up in basements, okay I'm exaggerating a little. My shop is in the basement it has windows but it also has a gas furnace and gas operated hot water heater as well as a guess close dryer. Is there any safe way I can spray lacquer on a small scale one body at a time in my basement without investing thousands into a spray booth? By reading on the Internet it's hard to tell if the risk is blown out of proportion or if it's real, I would rather not die. It's hard to consider other options as it seems like Nitro has the most street cred:) I live in New York so spraying outside while the temperature and humidity is correct narrows it down to about two n a half days a decade:)
    Thanks
    A
     
  2. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Tele-Afflicted

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    I routinely spray water based acrylic lacquer in my basement. You should still wear a respirator, but there aren't fumes (you just don't want to inhale what is in the air). I like the Emtech EM-6000 from target coatings. I actually needed to spray a solvent finish in central NY, and had to wait from last October until last month to have the right conditions for spraying. With the waterbased stuff, you get very nitro-like performance and none of the fumes. Sure it doesn't have quite the same cred, but it turns out very nice and has a shorter cure time. Others may disagree, but I'm not a strict traditionalist.
     
  3. aarongreen123

    aarongreen123 Tele-Meister

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    That's good to know, I think the water based acrylic will do fine for my first build, simple process?
     
  4. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    I live in Mass and have used Nitro in my basement with many a fan and of course a respirator. Even in mild/moderate humidity. The key to this is patience. If it ends up something you want to try you can shoot it with the PreVal rattlecan type applicator. Most of the lacquers you can shoot straight from the can but I found thinning it some reduces blockage and helps get even coats when using the Preval. If you are worried about fumes Sherwin Williams makes an very good Lo-Voc Lacquer that I found out about in one of Colt Knight's post. Side note I now have a small air compressor and can use a detail hplv gun with it, but I still shoot my final coat with the PreVal. I use the hplv for stuff like sunburst and fades. Anyway good luck with the guitar. Post some pics when it's done!

    Chris
     
  5. aarongreen123

    aarongreen123 Tele-Meister

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    Cool, so if I understand the lovoc stuff has less combustible fumes so its safe to spray indoors? I read one of Coles threads from a few years ago and I like that method, vinyl sealeras initial seal, and to fill great, with lovoc to use with color and as clear coat?do I have that close to correct? I have a little three gallon compressor and was going to pic up a gun from Walmart. Tell me if I'm messed up:) actually this is the compressor I have, it's six gal http://www.homedepot.com/p/Porter-C...ncake-Compressor-C2002/203162815#.UjIkO8bku0I
     
  6. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think you got it.
    The lo-voc, yes as I understand it much safer. and FYI - It's only available by the gallon (about $40) and only from their Commercial/Contractor stores. (Local retail stores can order it from the commercials but don't regularly carry it.)
    Your steps are correct.
    Although if you have something that has a lot of pores you might want to grain fill in between layers of sealer. Outherwise you'll could see pits in the finish. The wood I have been using is alder and I didn't haven't had that problem at least not until I used ash and mahogany. I choose the Behlen's grain filler (takes a month of sundays to dry in our area but it works). One of this years challenge build guys used joint compound (sorry forgot who but it sounded interesting for solid color builds). There are several methods to the grain filling listed all over this site. I think Colt did one with multi-layered Vinyl.
    But yeah you have the steps right.
    I got a small gravity feed detail gun (4oz type) from Harbor Freight for 12 bucks and one of their airbrush kits for 15 they both work great with the pancake compressor for detail work like sunburst.
    I would make sure whatever gun you by is under 4cfm at 90psi / 2.5-3 cfm at 40psi to try and use with a pancake compressor most of the 20oz guns need 5cfm at 90 / 6cfm at 40. Mind you all of this is just what's worked for me so far.
     
  7. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Friend of Leo's

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    Pay attention to the amount of air needed for the gun you buy. If the CFM requirement is far greater than your compressor puts out, look at other guns. I have sprayed with my 4 gal framing compressor in a pinch. It works, but you don't want to do it all the time. The compressor will run almost constantly as you are spraying. For a single body and/or neck, it is doable, but I wouldn't want to finish more than one guitar at a time with that size compressor.

    Also, you don't necessarily have to spray inside. If weather allows, take your spraying outside, or into the garage. I hate spraying any kind of lacquer anywhere in the house. No matter how careful you are, the fumes get into the rest of the house. Sherwin Williams LOVOC may have fewer volatile organic compounds, but it still stinks like hell. In fact it smells worse to me than other non LOVOC lacquers I've used. YMMV, but I don't like the way it smells wet or after it has cured. It stinks. It's a great product, and I've got awesome results using it, but it smells bad. Now is a great time for outdoor spraying. Fewer bugs, and less heat/humidity. I've sprayed outside in the winter also. My best Lacquer results have always been sprayed in the winter. There is no need for retarder and things flow out and level really nicely.
     
  8. metecem

    metecem Friend of Leo's

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    I wouldn't spray anything that contains solvents in a room that contains a gas furnace and a gas water heater.
     
  9. backporch guy

    backporch guy Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree with that. Nitro + Flame = KABOOM!
     
  10. aarongreen123

    aarongreen123 Tele-Meister

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    is there such a thing as a spray booth/room/cage/whetever that can be put together to use in the basement? talking myself out of nitro spraying, i aint in this to be scared of blowin up:) i called sherwin williams, he said they have a water based lacquer called KEM something or other, any one tried that?
     
  11. TeleAnon

    TeleAnon Tele-Meister

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    Airtight AND ventilated? :(

    Pics of the basement area you are planning on doing this?
     
  12. crazygtr

    crazygtr TDPRI Member

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    This is good advice.
     
  13. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    (blush) Sorry read your post to fast and it didn't click about the gas!...ooooppppsss sorry... see everyone elses comments on the matter ^^^^^^^^^^^
    I totally agree on the smell and the fumes. Resperator only kind of knocks the smell down.
    If you find a better spot to spray the sw part number is T70c60 for gloss. T67F3 on the vinyl.

    Chris
     
  14. aarongreen123

    aarongreen123 Tele-Meister

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    Is it just the flame or any electrical component like light bulbs and ballasts etc?
     
  15. DrASATele

    DrASATele Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's the open flame and the build up of the gases created by spraying. Do you have a door way that opens to outside where you could hang the guitar maybe put a fan below it blowing outward then shoot it towards the outside. Does anyone think that would workout safely?
     
  16. TeleAnon

    TeleAnon Tele-Meister

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    Use this as your decision-making helper....

    Spray nitro anywhere you would be comfortable spilling a quart of gasoline, and letting it air-dry.

    BTW... Modern gas-fired water heaters have a flammable-vapor sensor, that will prevent the igniter from firing. I learned this, after using oil-based polyurethane on the floors in my basement. Had to factory-reset the water heater.
     
  17. aarongreen123

    aarongreen123 Tele-Meister

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    Pretty sure mine has a pilot. F the nitro for now
     
  18. Jupiter

    Jupiter Telefied Ad Free Member

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    FWIW, I've read about guys spraying nitro in marginal or even sub-marginal conditions, by getting the body and paint nice and warm, running outside, spraying it, and bringing it back in immediately.
     
  19. clsatt

    clsatt Tele-Afflicted

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    This is what I did before going to em6000. It works fine but the house still stinks for a couple weeks because of the off gassing.
     
  20. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Tele-Afflicted

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    I routinely use an 8 gallon compressor with the HF 4 oz HVLP gun and it lays down the EM6000 almost glass smooth with little effort. I start my wetsanding at 1000, though I could probably start around 1200.
     
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