Saddles at max height, but action too low

Steve Holt

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Heres my suggestion as an actual guitar tech.

Remove all shims.
Install all six strings and tune to pitch for full tension to set relief.
Adjust truss rod to get some relief, something like .005-.008 for starters.
You should then have very high action and need to lower the saddles.

Great advice.

I have to point out again that Warmoth truss rods (unless they've changed their minds) DO NOT provide the ability to add relief. You can only add more backbow to counteract string tension. So if you've got backbow... you've got backbow.

If string tension with all 6 strings isn't enough to get the neck to at least a straight position, then contact Warmoth. You shouldn't be having this issue with a neck AND body they created. Something is wrong.
 

telemnemonics

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Great advice.

I have to point out again that Warmoth truss rods (unless they've changed their minds) DO NOT provide the ability to add relief. You can only add more backbow to counteract string tension. So if you've got backbow... you've got backbow.

If string tension with all 6 strings isn't enough to get the neck to at least a straight position, then contact Warmoth. You shouldn't be having this issue with a neck AND body they created. Something is wrong.
Warmoth truss rod tech got pretty confusing.
As far as I know they have three truss rod systems now.
1) vintage single acting heel adjust
2) modern double rod headstock adjust
3) side adjust which is I believe a modern double rod, BUT has primary heel access, AND has an additional side adjust that acts like a washer between heel nut and neck, so you can slightly adjust the heel adjusted adjustment from the side.

Seems odd but I guess youre right that they still dont offer a dual action though they do offer a double rod.
 
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Freeman Keller

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Heres my suggestion as an actual guitar tech.

Remove all shims.
Install all six strings and tune to pitch for full tension to set relief.
Adjust truss rod to get some relief, something like .005-.008 for starters.
You should then have very high action and need to lower the saddles.

For the OP, do the above.

There is another option but that involves understanding the neck geometry and we've gone thru that so many times that frankly I don't have the energy again. This might help


 

Steve Holt

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Warmoth truss rod tech got pretty confusing.
As far as I know they have three truss rod systems now.
1) vintage single acting heel adjust
2) modern double rod headstock adjust
3) side adjust which is I believe a modern double rod, BUT has primary heel access, AND has an additional side adjust that acts like a washer between heel nut and neck, so you can slightly adjust the heel adjusted adjustment from the side.

Seems odd but I guess youre right that they still dont offer a dual action though they do offer a double rod.

I'm pretty sure the side adjust rod they offer still only works one way, the side adjust just allows for small adjustments without having to remove the neck if it's a heel adjust.

They throw around the word double a lot, though their truss rods only go one way. Seems like it works for a lot of people but being that I've purchased one warmoth neck and had to send it back to be replaced AFTER putting my logo on, spraying it, and reaming out the tuner holes (then having to do it all again on a new neck) I'm still just a little bitter 😅
 

Quexoz

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I have to point out again that Warmoth truss rods (unless they've changed their minds) DO NOT provide the ability to add relief. You can only add more backbow to counteract string tension. So if you've got backbow... you've got backbow.
Good point. I have NEVER had to "add relief", just loosen the truss rod to allow relief to occur. If it's back-bowed under tension with the truss rod loose...issa broke!
 
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Cyberi4n

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Heres my suggestion as an actual guitar tech.

Remove all shims.
Install all six strings and tune to pitch for full tension to set relief.
Adjust truss rod to get some relief, something like .005-.008 for starters.
You should then have very high action and need to lower the saddles.
Yup, I think on reading back that I would agree with this wholeheartedly. thanks for the pics of the bridge, those saddles ARE awfully high, so I would concurr that the backbow needs to be dealt with first by stringing up and evaluating just how bad it is, or whether under correct tension it's even a problem.
 

KiloJuliet

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Warmoth truss rod tech got pretty confusing.
As far as I know they have three truss rod systems now.
1) vintage single acting heel adjust
2) modern double rod headstock adjust
3) side adjust which is I believe a modern double rod, BUT has primary heel access, AND has an additional side adjust that acts like a washer between heel nut and neck, so you can slightly adjust the heel adjusted adjustment from the side.

Seems odd but I guess youre right that they still dont offer a dual action though they do offer a double rod.
Yes I specified a vintage modern construction if that helps at all.
 

KiloJuliet

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Heres my suggestion as an actual guitar tech.

Remove all shims.
Install all six strings and tune to pitch for full tension to set relief.
Adjust truss rod to get some relief, something like .005-.008 for starters.
You should then have very high action and need to lower the saddles.
Thank you, I will give this a go. As luck would have it, my box of replacement strings has depleted so I will need to head to the store over the weekend before I can test it out.

Also thanks to everyone else for the responses, much appreciated.
 

KiloJuliet

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I'd also take a measurement of your neck and neck pocket. The neck should be 1" thick and the pocket should be 5/8" deep. That means your neck should stick out 3/8" from the top of the body (not counting the thickness of the pickguard) If those measurements all work out you shouldn't need a shim.
I took the neck off to remove all of the shims, and took some measurements.

The neck pocket depth is 0.63 inches (16mm), measured from the bottom of the pocket to the surface of the body.

The neck thickness at the heel, measured to the crown of the fretboard is 0.99 inches (25.2mm).

From the neck heel to the side of the fretboard is 0.98 inches (25mm).
 

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jimmywrangles

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My two cents worth...The backbow is a problem. Do what the others have suggested and fix that first if you can, I'm betting everything will fall into place once that's done.
welcome to the forum and thanks for the very interesting thread.
 

KiloJuliet

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For the OP, do the above.

There is another option but that involves understanding the neck geometry and we've gone thru that so many times that frankly I don't have the energy again. This might help


That’s an amazing write up, thanks for sharing. I have been sketching things up during my lunch break to try to understand the geometry, but that has cleared it up!
 

Si G X

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My two cents worth...The backbow is a problem.

100% .... if the neck isn't straight you'll never be able to set it up right. It doesn't matter what else you do.

If the neck isn't straight with no tension on the truss rod, then it needs to go back. The truss rod is to counter the pull of the strings, nothing else. If it bent like a banana it's no good.
 

KiloJuliet

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I bought a notched ruler a while ago, I knew it’ll come in handy!
Neck definitely has back bow without the strings attached. I took some photos with the notched ruler ‘flat’ on the 9th fret, if that makes sense.
 

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Cyberi4n

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definitely back-bowed. Now, it may not be a problem under string tension. BUT further down the line, if you ever need to do a fret-level you'll struggle with that neck back-bowed. I'd suggest you send the neck back for a straighter one. Warmouth MAY try to argue the neck will sort itself out under string tension, and that MAY be the case, but I think you're storing up problems for yourself in the long term.
 

Si G X

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I bought a notched ruler a while ago, I knew it’ll come in handy!
Neck definitely has back bow without the strings attached. I took some photos with the notched ruler ‘flat’ on the 9th fret, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it does.....

How does one perform a fret level on a neck like that?

.. there's no truss rod tension on that right?

It might be ok once you have a set of strings on and up to pitch..... not sure what to advise.
 

Cyberi4n

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How does one perform a fret level on a neck like that?
One could put the neck in a jig, and introduce tension from the rear until the fingerboard is level without strings, in order to level the frets. I've seen it done, and it works. But the jigs aren't cheap, and are dependent on availability - not all luthiers have them.

Screenshot 2022-06-07 at 10.21.46.png
 

Si G X

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One could put the neck in a jig, and introduce tension from the rear until the fingerboard is level without strings, in order to level the frets. I've seen it done, and it works. But the jigs aren't cheap, and are dependent on availability - not all luthiers have them.

View attachment 991525

Cheers, I guessed there would be a way.

Pretty annoying to be starting from that place with a new neck though.
 

teletail

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Looking at those pics, your neck seems to have a backbow. Get a long straight edge (60cm or 24") Turn the truss rod counter clockwise by quarter turns, then measure for flatness with the straight edge. Do this repeatedly until the neck is flat. If you can't get it flat, it's broken and should be replaced / sent back.
+1

I don’t know why someone wouldn’t start with the easiest possible solution.
 




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