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Ryan Newman in a horrible crash

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by tap4154, Feb 17, 2020.

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  1. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    That's right.

    I abbreviated when I shouldn't have. What I mean is, I don't watch races on the plate tracks, unless they detour into the infield or some such thing to keep the speeds down. Nor anything that's so big the top speeds are real high. And so, no Texas Motor Speedway, no Atlanta, no Talladega, no Michigan, etc. I guess if I was there I'd watch a Pocono race but otherwise, I like something more like Bristol, Martinsville, Watkins Glen.

    How long ago was it that Buddy Baker topped 200 mph on one of these tracks? A long time ago. We've learned a lot and it is time to find a way to bring the speeds down and emphasize handling and driver finesse more.
     
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  2. Mrbob135

    Mrbob135 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Prayers for Ryan's full and speedy recovery. I was an avid NASCAR fan until the end of the 2001 Daytona 500. I don't watch the races anymore.
     
  3. tap4154

    tap4154 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I just wonder how long NASCAR will go on until they realize the demolition derby of handicapped cars that all the plate races turn into is NOT racing or what the public wants to see? Every race is just gambling with the lives of the drivers. I don't know if the solution is more rovals or what, but they need to get a grip and find a solution before another person gets killed by their negligence.
     
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  4. Swampash&Tweed

    Swampash&Tweed Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah . And he has to live with that.
    But rubbing is racing and the last 10000 rubs didnt have that happen.
     
  5. scooteraz

    scooteraz Friend of Leo's

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    I don’t know about rumors killing, but ‘loose lips sink ships’...
     
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  6. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I haven't watched NASCAR in a long time, but we switched it on yesterday as we heard Jimmie Johnson is retiring... only to watch the last hour... such a clean race until it wasn't... and so disappointing (and awful for Ryan Newman's wreck) it was more like watching child custody hearings than an exciting race.

    Having attended races in the past, we both commented on how long and boring all the cleanup and reset is and how they just kept having wrecks at the end.

    Glad it sounds like Newman will be okay.... but, it made me retreat even more from watching anymore. The safety stuff appears to work well, but I wonder if it has enabled just completely unhinged 'driving' that results in all the mayhem.... (when helmet technology got good, guys led with their head)

    I have no answers but did not find the race entertaining... it was interesting to see all the children of old drivers driving now...
     
  7. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I’ve watched a lot of NASCAR races. I’ve seen a lot of bad wrecks. That was the ugliest crash I’ve ever witnessed. Hands down. Here’s hoping Newman comes out of it ok. I honestly didn’t expect to hear that his injuries are “non life threatening”.

    That is nothing short of a miracle. By all rights, the man should be dead. If he were up and about today, I’d tell him to go buy a lottery ticket.
     
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  8. speedy mcfeely

    speedy mcfeely Tele-Holic

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    rubbing shouldn’t be racing. Other premiere racing leagues don’t rub like that. At least not without consequences.

    I’m sorry to offend the nascar fans. TDPRI has gotten less civil as years go by. It’s unfortunate.
     
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  9. Jakedog

    Jakedog Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    You are of course, correct. I totally understand that from the outside it looks primitive, low brow, and more than a little uncivilized when compared with many other forms of racing, but stock car racing just isn’t like other styles. We can all go round and round (pun intended) about whether or not it should be, but it is what it is. A sport unto itself.
     
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  10. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don't like supporting competitions where death is a fairly regular occurrence....although automobile racing is getting safer.


    Car racing, boxing....I'd rather watch the many other great sports out there that have great competition but where death is
    a total freak occurrence.

    I suppose one could argue that with the safety upgrades car racing is now within
    the zone of acceptable risk. Not like the bad old days where car racers would die frequently.

    By the same token I don't like it when companies like RedBull sponsor extremely dangerous sports like
    wingsuits, extreme mountain biking competitions, and their ilk. Sure, people with more guts and a high
    adrenaline addiction will always do stupid stuff, but do we grownups need to help enable that??

    Another good argument for it is that people will race cars no matter what, and it's much safer to be done on the track
    with rigorous rules and measures in place vs. doing it out on open roads in street cars, Fast and Furious style....but
    a counter argument is that the racing on TV pumps up young guys to go out and race in their Civics in an effort
    to emulate their heroes.

    I'm also mindful of the frog boiling in water metaphor. I used to race bicycles. As you get into it you go from time trials
    to doing criteriums. And the criteriums, circuit races, or road races keep getting gnarlier and gnarlier, until one day you find
    yourself coming down the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca in a pack of 100 cyclists at
    over 50 mph and realizing that if anybody touches wheels you could be sliding bare-skinned on asphalt for about 80 feet with
    other dudes crashing into you and riding over the top of you. And you wonder how the hell you got yourself into this predicament.
    And you realize you just kind of went with the flow, taking the excitement/risk/danger element up a notch every time you went
    up to the next level. And that you are part of a giant group psychosis where everyone somehow thinks it's perfectly normal, and
    when things do go horribly wrong as they inevitably do, all the racers come up with various rationalizations as to how the victim must
    have messed up....because that's the only way they can prevent the fear getting hold of them. That you can do everything right
    and still roll snake eyes. (Fortunately in bicycle racing death is still very rare, but serious injuries including bad concussions and broken
    bones are very common. Crashing at over 30 mph will do that to you.)

    My son is 10 and plays ice hockey and I definitely worry about the risk factor as he gets older, the kids get stronger, and checking becomes
    legal. I'm hoping they reduce checking and limit it to higher ages....the women's game is fantastic without checking, IMO. If I'm in a duffer's
    league it would be in a no-checking league. There's enough risk of injury just from incidental contact without intentional checking being allowed...
    You see young guys that are in the NHL or on their way there that get destroyed by concussions and you gotta wonder why we don't just
    adjust the rules a bit to make it safer. Unlike football, violent collisions don't really need to be part of the game, IMO, for it to still be a great
    game.

    The point about restrictor plates is perhaps similar....when certain rules create unnecessary risk one should ask WHY are we doing this to our
    people?
     
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  11. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    As I get older I'm amazed I made it this far. Guess that's why I'm worried about my son.
    If he's anything like I was then his guardian angels will be working some serious overtime....

    But anytime you add a motor to a sport it gets way more dangerous. We all know tons of kids
    that ride bicycles, even BMX and mountain bikes. But once they get into motocross-- watch out!
    Motocross and skateboards are the greatest wealth generator ever made for orthopedic surgeons.
     
  12. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    boy, a lot here. We went for a walk yesterday at the beach along west cliff dr (near the famous steamer lane surf spot) it is packed with on lookers, surfers, people walking and NOW---> a host of craft like: rental bikes, powered rental bikes, powered scooters, scooters, skaters, skateboarders etc etc.... it struck me 'to what end?' is the speed the thing? the road runs about 3 miles, why the rush? Why not just walk it? Well, because.

    Restrictor plates, I am pretty sure this is the argument/reason, save lives. They have them to reduce the number of airborn vehicles killing audience members and drivers. By reducing horsepower, they reduce speed and thus reduce part of the physics experiment. The challenge (to me) is getting the cars down from the 200 mph rate to, say, 140. 140 would still be fast but MUCH safer. People don't like restrictor plate racing... okay, to solve this, they probably need to run engines that will top at the 140 spot and that will be hated for being slow and some of the negative trappings of plate racing.

    In a few years, the cars will be electric and I suspect they will rely on huge speaker systems to make the sound of racing.

    My friend the doctor (also my former student) is an orthopedic surgeon, his specialty is knees and skiing type injury. He says he sees much more extreme injury now because everything is so much more efficient and conditions are so much better that people with less skill go much much faster which leads to worse accidents....

    I knew a guy who was riding his bike in his cul de sac (he was an adult) and he was riding slow with his young son, lost his balance and fell, hit his head on a manhole cover and died on the spot.... no helmet. poof.
     
  13. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, similar to what happened to my lead guitar player's dad. He lingered for a day, but he had no chance.

    So, the safety tech means fewer outright deaths, I think, but the expense of rebuilding busted knees, wrists and shoulders is pretty daunting. But, I will take the exchange - sounds like improvement.
     
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  14. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think the palpable risk of death is part of what makes the sport exciting, sadly. But that's human nature.

    Imagine if the pinnacle of automobile racing were
    really, really safe cars that could only go about 130 mph. People probably wouldn't be as into it.

    I'm not a student of the sport but I gathered that the restrictor plates creates a scenario where all the cars pretty
    much have the exact same abilities and so everyone has to resort to "pushing and pulling" in big trains and
    this tends to lead to big crashes. I guess the idea is that if the cars were reduced in their total power but
    more variability were allowed in their engineering specs then there might be other, less risky ways to
    beat your opponent-- by putting together a faster car, basically- either in the straightaways, the turns,
    or better yet, both.

    At least we're past the era of the Roman Coliseum where gladiators would fight each other to the death
    or be pitted against a menagerie of wild animals and everyone screamed for blood.
     
  15. Buckocaster51

    Buckocaster51 Super Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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    Posts have been deleted. It would be a shame to have to issue suspensions/bans over this thread.

    Thanks!
     
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  16. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    They have races in watsonville and madera and they draw. The cars are safe, people don't get hurt, regular guys race there... the stands are packed (heck I see the races in Madera are on ESPN, so it is kinda popular)

    I don't think your initial premise is correct. I don't think the thrill is that death is possible. When I have rock climbed, sky dived, skiied, and done other dangerous sports and hobbies... it was NEVER with the thought that death was part of the bargain... I have always wanted to survive... the excitement was the doing, the sensation of that speed, that view, that moment... I do not think that it is the threat of death that is enticing and definitely not to nascar fans... they want to see hard fought, strategic, brave racing.... they get the rush of the sound and the fury of the cars and I ALWAYS HEAR the longing for the old body styles and the differences in cars. At a lower speed, they could achieve all that much in the way that we doll up slot cars... sure, use the car of tomorrow as the frame and protective shell, then let the teams get creative with the shapes etc... granted they'll be looking for wind advantages, but they'll also be able to pull of some great stuff and still bang fenders...

    it is like deadening the ball in baseball (or not allowing metal bats)... nobody (that matters) wants to see the wreck we saw last night nor all the wrecking that went on mostly because high speed decreases the ability to correct...
     
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  17. stxrus

    stxrus Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don’t think the specter of death is appealing in racing. But who has ever been to a race and didn’t somehow deep inside wanted the excitement of a crash?

    We used to go to the 1/4 mile ovals and watch them spinout, bang into each other and sometimes roll both on and off the track. Once it was known the driver(s) was safe a cheer went up and that WAS part of racing.

    The speeds were not fast and the skill of the drivers made a big part of the fun...
    at least for me
     
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  18. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I hope you're right, getbent. I was going to say maybe the sport should peak at KART racing to make
    it safe, but then I looked up the Wikipedia entry on KART racing and apparently they make go karts that
    can go 160 mph these days....

    I agree that the people doing extreme sports are all expecting to live...and that's part of why they tell themselves all kinds
    of stories about how the victim messed up so they don't have to face the reality of inherent risk. Inherent risk is like
    playing Russian Roulette-- if you keep playing eventually you're going to spin to the wrong barrel. Almost everything has some
    level of inherent risk even after deploying all the reasonable safety measures and training. I would certainly prefer to spin
    a revolver cylinder with 12 chambers in it rather than one with 5 chambers in it....some risky sports are inherently riskier than others.
    I would put Everest-- perhaps at the very top of the list-- the least number of chambers in the spinning cylinder....

    There is a fatality rate of 6.5 per cent of climbers who attempt to summit. Climbing Mount Everest is among the most dangerous pursuits
    in the world with a fatality rate of 6.5 per cent of climbers who attempt to summit.


    You can do everything
    100% right climbing Everest and still die because a giant chunk of ice decides to fall on you when you are crossing the
    Khumbu Icefall, or because a freak storm comes up just when you are beginning your descent.

    I SCUBA dive as part of my job and have extensive and constant training, with all kinds of safety protocols in place. I am
    amazed at how comparatively cavalier the sports divers are-- I don't think they realize how risky it actually is. According to Wiki, the
    death rate is actually very low-- and it surprises me. Maybe naive and complacent sport divers have good guardian
    angels... even when they don't pay enough attention to their air consumption rate.

    The fatality rate was 1.8 per million recreational dives, and 47 deaths for every 1000 emergency department presentations for scuba injuries.
    The most frequent known root cause for diving fatalities is running out of, or low on, breathing gas, but the reasons for this are not specified, probably due to lack of data.

    The fatality rate for skydiving is around 1 death per 100,000 jumps and the average is skewed by experienced jumpers misjudging high-performance landings (swooping). Ignoring these competency-based breakdowns for a moment, performing 17 skydives in a year poses around the same average risk of fatality as driving a car 10,000 miles in a year. For BASE jumping it is closer to a roughly estimated 1 death per 500-1000 jumps so is, roughly, more than a hundred times more fatally prone to risk than skydiving.


    It should be noted however that a blanket average of risk is rarely helpful as each participant in the sport will have his/her own perception of acceptable risk for a given facet of the sport, some DISCIPLINES being inherently more risky than others. For example: each year in the US around 3,500,000 skydives are completed, of which 500,000 are tandem skydives. There are around 35,000 active participants annually (not including tandem students) of whom, on average, nearly 25 per year are fatally injured. By breaking down these figures we can work out that a tandem skydive carries a fatal risk of 1/500,000 jumps accounting for an average of 4% of skydiving deaths in the USA over a 10 year period. By contrast high performance landing has accounted for an average of 34% of annual skydiving deaths over a 10 year period in the US (and far less than 500,000 high performance landings have been performed). From this breakdown, we can suggest that high performance landing carries at least eight times more fatal risk than tandem skydiving. Similar breakdowns also apply to aspects of wingsuit-BASE and BASE jumping, however a lack of regulation in BASE means that non-fatal jump data is not logged, and thus unavailable.
     
  19. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Went over the handlebars of my bike in an alley last summer. My head and shoulder took the impact.

    Hydraulic disc brakes wouldn’t release.

    Shoulder scraped up , as well as the helmet. Shudder to think if I was bare-headed. But that’s impossible as I never am...
     
  20. Buckocaster51

    Buckocaster51 Super Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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