RWRP?

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by dougstrum, Dec 8, 2016.

  1. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    968
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Location:
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    When wiring pickups how much effect does the polarity have? If the middle
    position sounds thin I just reverse wires on one of the pickups, and all seems
    good. The middle position always seems a bit quieter (hum canceling) but I
    never really think about the magnetic polarity.
     
  2. FrontPU

    FrontPU Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    698
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Location:
    nyc
    The metal-cover/baseplate tends to be connected to "black" ground wire, so you need to separate them when you use the black wire as hot. You might not need this info, but beginners would do.
     
  3. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,503
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Location:
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    You will normally loose a little horsepower when you put two pups in paralell.

    One being RW/RP means nothing as far as that goes.
     
    soulman969 likes this.
  4. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,843
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Location:
    Horn Lake, MS
    On a Tele, the pickups are too far away to be a problem with magnetic polarity. Reversing the wires to one of the pickups will give you hum cancelling in the middle position. Some neck pickups have a grounded cover that is shared with the pickup ground, you'll have to separate the two. Some people have switched wires on the bridge pickup instead, as long as the bridge pickup doesn't have a grounded base plate on the bottom of the pickup.
    Something will have to be modified or you'll need to switch the neck pickup for a RWRP pickup.
    Or you could put a RWRP Strat pickup in the middle.
     
  5. FrontPU

    FrontPU Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    698
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Location:
    nyc
    For the noiseless parallel humbucking mode at the middle position, you need to reverse the magnet top polarity, too (e.g. clockwise winding / top north bridge & counter-clockwise winding / top south neck).
     
  6. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    968
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Location:
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    With 2 pickups and a 3 way switch the middle position is going
    to be like a humbucker in parallel. The thing I started to wonder
    about was how much the polarity of the pickups matters.

    From what Zepfan says polarity doesn't matter much because of
    the distance between pickups on a Tele.
     
  7. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,503
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Location:
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    >how much the polarity of the pickups matters<

    Nada

    That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
     
    soulman969 and Derek Kiernan like this.
  8. Derek Kiernan

    Derek Kiernan Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,315
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Location:
    Princeton, NJ
    As long as the signals are in phase, polarity is a non-topic, with only the noise being variable.
     
    soulman969 likes this.
  9. Sandhill69

    Sandhill69 Tele-Holic

    Age:
    70
    Posts:
    702
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Location:
    Colorado
    To humbuck, two single coils MUST be opposite in BOTH phase AND polarity. From Seymore Duncan, regarding the origin of the humbucker

    "The way this worked was by pairing a coil with the north pole of the magnet oriented up towards the strings, and and the other coil was paired with the south pole of the magnet oriented up towards the strings. Connecting the coils in series and out of phase significantly reduced the hum and interference through phase cancellation."

    As you move the single coils away from each other, the effect diminishes.
     
    FrontPU likes this.
  10. FrontPU

    FrontPU Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    698
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Location:
    nyc
    Topic? The thread title is "RWRP". "RWRP" is an abbreviation for “reverse-wound, reverse-polarity” and refers to a technique used to build pickups so that they cancel hum.

    And then the first post, written by dougstrum, says "The middle position always seems a bit quieter (hum canceling)" and "but I never really think about the magnetic polarity." follows. And also:

    How much? It would be 50%. It's one of the 2 conditions that you can't ignore. So if you need the hum cancelling "effect" by both pickups which people usually expect with "RWRP" wiring, you need the "reverse-polarity".
     
  11. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    968
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Location:
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    I checked the polarity of my Teles~one of them had same polarity
    on neck and bridge pickup. The neck pickup is a Dream 90; I took
    it apart and flipped the magnets. I like the middle position sound
    better now, perhaps it's a bit fuller...
     
  12. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,843
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Location:
    Horn Lake, MS
    Lots of people have just switched the wiring to get it to work on 2 pickup guitars like a Tele where the pickups are far enough apart so as not to be an issue because flipping the magnetic polarity is easy for a humbucker or P90, but not easy on a fender single coil without destroying the coil. Yes flipping the magnet is better, but not completely necessary.
    A Strat or similar guitar with multiple pickups that are closer together, the magnetic polarity is more of a problem and needs to be changed.
    Guitar in my avatar came with 2 big singles originally. Neck pickup was RW, but not RP and worked fine in the middle positions. Older P90 guitars were similar.
     
  13. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,503
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Location:
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Explain that one.
     
  14. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    73
    Posts:
    10,026
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Location:
    NJ via TX
    what all the rhetoric boils down to is that having one of yer tele's two pickups with a reverse wind and reverse polarity will yield a parallel humbucking, relatively noise free, circuit whence both are selected ... or, will allow for a 4-way switch that will allow for both parallel and series humbucking circuits when both are selected.

    typically, a parallel connection will have some measure of reduced output and a bit less mid-range, whereas a series connection will have increased output and increased mid-range.

    that's it.
     
  15. sjtalon

    sjtalon Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,503
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Location:
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Ya Rob, this has gone all over the place.


    I suppose to answer dougstrum's question, I think to ask, specifically, what do mean by:

    >The thing I started to wonder
    about was how much the polarity of the pickups matters.<

    Matters in what way ??
     
  16. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    73
    Posts:
    10,026
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Location:
    NJ via TX
    ONLY for parallel or series connections with other coils and for NO OTHER reasons.

    THEREFORE, the coil wire wind direction and its top magnetic polarity mean NOTHING for a single esquire pickup.
     
    soulman969 and Derek Kiernan like this.
  17. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    968
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Location:
    blu ridge mtn cabin
    When I wondered how much the reverse polarity mattered; I
    was thinking about how much it would affect the tone and noise canceling in the middle position.
    Having changed one tele that didn't have reverse polarity, I'd say it
    made a slight improvement in the tone. In the future I'll definitely pay attention to polarity when swapping pickups. Thanks for all the replies.
     
  18. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    73
    Posts:
    10,026
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Location:
    NJ via TX
    in synopsis - yes, pickup polarity will affect the tone of two (or more) pickups selected at the same time, if they are all the same polarity or if one is of different polarity. but so will pickup coil wind direction (phasing), if any one pickup is of the wind or reverse wind. more than a few combinations.
     
    FrontPU likes this.
  19. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

    Age:
    73
    Posts:
    10,026
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Location:
    NJ via TX
    FrontPU likes this.
  20. Zepfan

    Zepfan Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,843
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Location:
    Horn Lake, MS
    Thank you Rob for that. #3 on the chart shows same polarity and opposite phase/wiring does in deed work, yet weaker. This is a way to achieve humbucking results when flipping the magnet isn't a possibility or an easy feat. This is what I was getting at earlier.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.