Rustoleum 2x Gloss clear over 2x satin. Has anyone done this?

Chunkocaster

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Im about to spray a strat body with Rustoeum 2x heirloom white satin and want to use 2x gloss clear over it when done. Has anyone used the 2x gloss clear over the 2x satin paint? If so how did it work out?

I went with heirloom white because it looks close to aged Olympic white, unfortunately it was only available in satin. I grabbed a can of the 2x ivory silk too and might blend a fade in areas when done to duplicate the look of a aged nitro Olympic white strat I recently sold.
 
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Peegoo

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It will work great. One of the cool things about satin and flat finishes is they generally have a higher percentage of solids in the formulation, so you can build a finish faster by using flat/matte/satin instead of gloss.

This is especially true for clear coats. I often shoot 6-8 coats of satin clear, and only one or two topcoats of gloss clear.
 

Chunkocaster

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It will work great. One of the cool things about satin and flat finishes is they generally have a higher percentage of solids in the formulation, so you can build a finish faster by using flat/matte/satin instead of gloss.

This is especially true for clear coats. I often shoot 6-8 coats of satin clear, and only one or two topcoats of gloss clear.
That's good news, I figured the white would cover better being satin but wasn't sure how the gloss would go over the top. I've fine sanded the body and applied two light coats of tru oil to seal it and smooth over a few raised grain areas.

I also wasn't sure if the 2x gloss was good to shoot over the 2x satin following the same recoat times and doing it directly after applying the color coats.

Have you used the 2x in this way? Shooting the gloss clear over the satin immediately after applying the color?
 
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Peegoo

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Mixing finishes, e.g., spray finish over Tru Oil, can sometimes cause a crinkled finish or one that remains gummy. Tread carefully when doing this.

It always is worth the time to do a small test piece on scrap wood to make sure two dissimilar finishes will play nice with each other.

Generally, if you use only finishes of the same brand/formula from the same maker (i.e., the satin and gloss you have), you're good to go.
 

Chunkocaster

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Mixing finishes, e.g., spray finish over Tru Oil, can sometimes cause a crinkled finish or one that remains gummy. Tread carefully when doing this.

It always is worth the time to do a small test piece on scrap wood to make sure two dissimilar finishes will play nice with each other.

Generally, if you use only finishes of the same brand/formula from the same maker (i.e., the satin and gloss you have), you're good to go.
The tru oil is barely there, just lightly sealed the wood but I will test first and give plenty of dry time for the T/O to cure. I know nitro works over tru oil and think the 2x is enamel so should be ok too.

The Rustoleum 2x seems popular so i' surprised more haven't had experience and pics of using the gloss over satin. While choosing one they had a new cool looking gloss plush pink that looked like a faded out shell pink.
 
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Jim_in_PA

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Just one thing to consider....the gloss is going to be "more clear" than the underlying satin coats which have flattening agents in them. If your intended end game is gloss, the best practice would be to stick with gloss for all your coats. In fact, many times, folks will use gloss for all initial coats even when the intended end result is satin, only switching to the "flatter" finish for the last coat or two. That preserves the clarity. It probably matters less for something that has solid color coats but potentially could be "visible", even if minimal, for a clear finish that exposes the wood underneath. Subjective for sure, but worth thinking about.
 

DrASATele

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Follow the re-paint times on the can. Make sure each coat is dry or that crinkle that Peegoo talked about will happen. I've used both satin and gloss under clear gloss. The key is to follow the re-coat times and do no more than 3 passes in a day. If you flood any area it will take a long time to dry. Do not over sand the body 220-320 max. I had some adhesion issues sanding 320-400 before spraying. Good luck.
 

Chunkocaster

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Just one thing to consider....the gloss is going to be "more clear" than the underlying satin coats which have flattening agents in them. If your intended end game is gloss, the best practice would be to stick with gloss for all your coats. In fact, many times, folks will use gloss for all initial coats even when the intended end result is satin, only switching to the "flatter" finish for the last coat or two. That preserves the clarity. It probably matters less for something that has solid color coats but potentially could be "visible", even if minimal, for a clear finish that exposes the wood underneath. Subjective for sure, but worth thinking about.

I have a feeling that the satin will show through a little, like looking through glass laid on a satin object. I'm ok with that if that is the case, being that the finish is white it should be less of a problem than if it was gloss over satin black.
 

Chunkocaster

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Follow the re-paint times on the can. Make sure each coat is dry or that crinkle that Peegoo talked about will happen. I've used both satin and gloss under clear gloss. The key is to follow the re-coat times and do no more than 3 passes in a day. If you flood any area it will take a long time to dry. Do not over sand the body 220-320 max. I had some adhesion issues sanding 320-400 before spraying. Good luck.
Thanks, I haven't read the can yet but recently used duplicolor metalcast which advised a re coat after 10 mins for 3 coats but no more than 1 hr. All went well spraying the base and following straight after with the candy clear. The recoat times may vary but hopefully the same method works well with the Rustoleum 2x products.
 
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Peegoo

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Yeah, it depends on the type of volatile solvents and the solids formula for the specific finish. Some have solvents that flash off really fast and recoat schedule is compressed. Some, like Valspar's version of cellulose acetate aerosol, let you recoat any time you like--so long as the previous layer has tacked up.

Valspar is one of my favorites because Behlen's, Reranch, and Stew-Mac lacquer can creep or run if you get just a wee bit too much coverage. The Valspar stays put. It's available in clear and several colors, and you can get it at Hopeless Despot and Lowe's. And it's not $12 a can. This stuff:

white-lacquer-spray-paint-for-wood-high-gloss-white-lacquer-paint.jpg

That is NOT my hand. I swear!
 

Chunkocaster

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Yeah, it depends on the type of volatile solvents and the solids formula for the specific finish. Some have solvents that flash off really fast and recoat schedule is compressed. Some, like Valspar's version of cellulose acetate aerosol, let you recoat any time you like--so long as the previous layer has tacked up.

Valspar is one of my favorites because Behlen's, Reranch, and Stew-Mac lacquer can creep or run if you get just a wee bit too much coverage. The Valspar stays put. It's available in clear and several colors, and you can get it at Hopeless Despot and Lowe's. And it's not $12 a can. This stuff:

white-lacquer-spray-paint-for-wood-high-gloss-white-lacquer-paint.jpg

That is NOT my hand. I swear!

:) We are pretty limited on aerosol Lacquer choices where I am. The Valspar sounds like a great way to go but I don't think I can get it here. The cheapest option I have for a lacquer aerosol runs at about $27 bucks a can plus $10 bucks shipping and would take a week to get here.:cry:
 

Peegoo

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Chunkocaster, Deft and Watco also sell really good aerosol lacquers. Another very good, very common one is Rustoleum lacquer...check locally for this stuff:
b19cee7a87f2f642135809da443031aa.jpg

I've had great results with all of the brands I've mentioned here.
 

Peegoo

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An important consideration is the type of finish (interior or exterior type) you choose.

It's intuitive to assume exterior grades of finish are much tougher that interior types, because they have to withstand the elements, right? Precisely--which means exterior finishes have to remain a bit softer to account for expansion and contraction of substrates as surfaces get really hot and really cold throughout the seasons. A hard, abrasion-resistant finish can crack or craze as it expands and contracts.

Interior-grade finishes are substantially harder and more durable. This durability is a good thing for guitar finishes.
 

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The Rustoleum 2x seems popular so i' surprised more haven't had experience and pics of using the gloss over satin. While choosing one they had a new cool looking gloss plush pink that looked like a faded out shell pink.

As mentioned above - while it DOES get used as a guitar "paint" (it's not a fine-finish like lacquer, polyesters and other long-term, durable finishing systems) and may look great initially, it will have only a fraction of the durability of a properly-applied lacquer system.

You not only sacrifice abrasion resistance and film toughness. Enamels have very poor solvent resistance (many cleaners, polishers and fretboard "oils" and "conditioners" will damage or discolor the film); they yellow and/or fade more rapidly (sometimes when subjected to darkness and not UV light!), also yellowing when exposed to ammoniated cleaners; and can be subject to "blocking" - where a coated surface sticks to another coating, guitar stand, case fabric, etc.

Not a coating I recommend for guitars under any circumstances.
 

Chunkocaster

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As mentioned above - while it DOES get used as a guitar "paint" (it's not a fine-finish like lacquer, polyesters and other long-term, durable finishing systems) and may look great initially, it will have only a fraction of the durability of a properly-applied lacquer system.

You not only sacrifice abrasion resistance and film toughness. Enamels have very poor solvent resistance (many cleaners, polishers and fretboard "oils" and "conditioners" will damage or discolor the film); they yellow and/or fade more rapidly (sometimes when subjected to darkness and not UV light!), also yellowing when exposed to ammoniated cleaners; and can be subject to "blocking" - where a coated surface sticks to another coating, guitar stand, case fabric, etc.

Not a coating I recommend for guitars under any circumstances.
This is a cheap body and I don't mind it wearing and getting beat up down the track.
I've stained the body vintage amber and tobacco brown mix to hide its pale wood and allow for wear if I accidentally sand through or the finish I apply eventually wears through. I don't want to spend more on the finish than I did for the body. I may shoot a different color of 2x over the top if it looks too worn out after a couple years use. On this guitar a $12 buck paint job makes more sense to me than a $60 buck plus paint job that will still get beat up with use.
 
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Chunkocaster

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Completed the new partscaster strat with gloss clear over rustoleum heirloom white satin today. Started assembling 4 hours after I sprayed the final clear coat. Came up nice. Installed a jb jnr in the bridge, custom shop 69 neck and middle pickups.
Weighs in at 5.8 pounds.

20191211_002334.jpg
 

Corvus

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Looks really nice and we aren't really trying to emulate a factory finish. So What if it ages - some folk pay good money for that! I've seen the Rustoleum products in the hardware store here.
Why not try car paints? They are all compatible - here's mine in Ford Bermuda Blue over grey primer - more of a semi gloss polished up with T-cut. The guitar is a sort of short scale travel guitar based on a Supro style with a 23 inch scale and solid sides length made out of cheapest ply with a sapele neck.

Les Purchase 28 completed.jpg
 

Chunkocaster

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Looks really nice and we aren't really trying to emulate a factory finish. So What if it ages - some folk pay good money for that! I've seen the Rustoleum products in the hardware store here.
Why not try car paints? They are all compatible - here's mine in Ford Bermuda Blue over grey primer - more of a semi gloss polished up with T-cut. The guitar is a sort of short scale travel guitar based on a Supro style with a 23 inch scale and solid sides length made out of cheapest ply with a sapele neck.

View attachment 662732
Looks good, I like the lower gloss look too. I sprayed a tele body with duplicolor metalcast a few weeks ago. Metallic silver base and like a candy orange clear. That worked well too although mine looks a bit more reliced than I set out to do. With the candy clears the body really needs to be dead flat otherwise any sanding after spraying leaves it looking patchy.
 

Yonatan

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I realize that this thread is a bit old, but I think that you guys here on this thread would have the best advice, as many people are using lacquers:

If I'm going to spray Rust-Oleum 2x clear over 2x satin that has already cured for several days, would I need to sand the satin to avoid adhesion issues with the clear, or I could I spray right over the satin? I've seen such mixed opinions on this. My daughter wants to paint some designs with acrylic paints, so I can't spray the clear right away within the recoat window of the satin. Just wondering if I should sand before proceeding to her painting and then clear.

satinfireorange_edited.jpeg
 

DrASATele

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I'd probably use fine steel wool or the synthetic stuff to smooth areas out. FYI the Rustoleum stuff is no acrylic or lacquer, it's enamel. I highly suggest testing the drawings on scrap painted just like the guitar. I suspect the acrylic might lift the enamel paint of the Rustoleum, no matter how much it has cured.
 




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