roland blues cube help needed !

[piaggio]

I've Just bought a Roland Blues Cube and I couldn't be more satisfied with it : I was searching for a ss, decently sounding, not expensive, reliable, portable spare for my vox AC30, and I got it, and more ( it actually sounds a lot more than decent).
it has a spring reverb, on the inside, but there is a strange thing going : the reverb knob, even on max, gives the amount of reverb that my other amps give on 2-3.
Just enough to play, but still less than what I like to hear.
the reverb is perfect but...not much, that's all: certainly not the sea of reverb you get turning to the max a reverb knob on any amp.

maybe (just guessing) something is happened in the box where the sorings are ? the inner pick up could be misplaced ?
In that case, it could be something I can fix myself.

hank you for any advice on the matter !

 

[jimdandy]

I have a Blues Cube BC 30 -- it doesn't have reverb, but you're right, they are nice solid state amps.

 

[soulman969]

It could be a broken spring but more than likely one of the transducers is going or gone bad. The simplest thing to do is to replace the reverb tank. It's an easy fix (4 screws) mounted to the inside of the cabinet and not all that expensive.

Don't bother calling Roland for a part number and a quote. The part number is on the tank but it's not currently stocked by any supplier I could find and Roland wants $142 USD for a replacement. Just to prove how ridiculous that is either of two tanks I've lasted below will work just fine as a replacement.

http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-RK-8DB2C1C (Price $22.95 USD)

http://www.tubesandmore.com/search/node/P-RMOD-8DB2C1D (Price $17.50 USD and it's the one I used to replace mine)

 

[ac15]

I have a bc60 blues cube. My theory is that there's nothing wrong with the reverb at all. It's just the way the reverb is on that amp and you're expecting to hear more.

 

[soulman969]

That's odd because when I dime mine it's '60s Surf-Rock time. Sounds like what playing in HS gymnasiums used to be like. It's a lot more than just subtle so I'm not sure what the OP is expecting.

 

[songofthewind]

I have to turn the reverb up to about halfway to sound reverb-y. I don't use reverb much anyway. Maybe the potentiometer?

 

[Tony474]

I agree with ac15 and SOTW. I've just fired up my BC-60 to assess the situation and, sure enough, the reverb is very nice but there isn't a whole lot of it even at maximum on the knob. It doesn't deliver that over-splashy excess of reverb that's available (but not really useable) from, say, the Tech 21 Trademark 60 or the Sessionette 75. On the BC-60 I usually work with the reverb about halfway up - but then I often use a bit of delay as well.

So it seems that unless there is a broken spring or something it is indeed just the nature of the amp. Soulman, yours may sound a bit different because your replacement tank is not the originally-specified type.

 

[soulman969]

I agree with ac15 and SOTW. I've just fired up my BC-60 to assess the situation and, sure enough, the reverb is very nice but there isn't a whole lot of it even at maximum on the knob. It doesn't deliver that over-splashy excess of reverb that's available (but not really useable) from, say, the Tech 21 Trademark 60 or the Sessionette 75. On the BC-60 I usually work with the reverb about halfway up - but then I often use a bit of delay as well.

So it seems that unless there is a broken spring or something it is indeed just the nature of the amp. Soulman, yours may sound a bit different because your replacement tank is not the originally-specified type.

The specs are all the same Tony it's just that the mounting plane is a vertical "C" mount rather than a "D" mount but in this application that makes no difference. Everything else is identical to the OEM tank.

Maybe I'm not understanding what the OP was looking for. To me there's a lot of reverb when that knob is dimed and all of it's useable if you're looking for that '60s surf sound. But then again I don't have another amp with a tank reverb to compare it too so you're probably right. Compared to others it may not be as intense. I'm running mine between 4 and 5 and that's enough for me since I've also got a little delay running as well.

 

[Tony474]

The specs are all the same Tony it's just that the mounting plane is a vertical "C" mount rather than a "D" mount but in this application that makes no difference. Everything else is identical to the OEM tank.

Appreciate that... I was just surmising that just possibly the different designated mounting plane might affect the way the springs themselves respond to the input signal. Probably not to any significant extent but just a thought.

 

[piaggio]

thank you all for the feedback !
I guess that on my BC-60 the reverb doesn't work properly, because it's barely audible with the knob at 10, but maybe I'm wrong and it's the way these amps sound.
I don't know, I'll try to follow the advice from Soulman (thanks!) and see what happens.

 

[soulman969]

thank you all for the feedback !
I guess that on my BC-60 the reverb doesn't work properly, because it's barely audible with the knob at 10, but maybe I'm wrong and it's the way these amps sound.
I don't know, I'll try to follow the advice from Soulman (thanks!) and see what happens.

It's more than barely audible at full tilt and as far as I'm concerned it's all useable if you want set it at 10-12 for a lot of reverb. I have mine set between 4-5 for most stuff I do but if I was to do some surf tunes or rockabilly that required a lot of reverb IMHO it's there. It's just not overboard like you find with some amps.

That may be because it's a short tank rather than a long tank but I admit that I'm far from an expert on it. It just sounds to me like it's either a bad transducer in the reverb tank or as SOTW suggests a failing pot in the reverb circuit itself and replacing the tank is probably the easiest and quickest way to find out if that's where the problem is.

Good Luck with it piaggio.

 

[piaggio]

Soulman, you've been real precious, and I ask you one last thing : what if I connect the red and white plugs to the reverb tank of my blues junior (leaving the tank where it is, putting the two amps rear to rear, and giving current only to the BC ? will everything explode ?
if the problem is the tank, it should show.

 

[soulman969]

Soulman, you've been real precious, and I ask you one last thing : what if I connect the red and white plugs to the reverb tank of my blues junior (leaving the tank where it is, putting the two amps rear to rear, and giving current only to the BC ? will everything explode ?
if the problem is the tank, it should show.

No, it won't explode. Just make sure you have it connected the right way. I wasn't aware that you had another amp with a tank reverb. If it's too difficult to do that way then just pull the tank from the BJr, hold it or lay it in it's proper mounting plane, and connect the BC to it. If you have working reverb then problem is with the tank. You'll know right away.

 

[Tony474]

That's a good idea, but bear in mind that the input and output impedances of the Blues Junior's reverb tank may be different from those of the BC-60's unit. Shouldn't stop it working but may have an effect on the sound it makes. Still, it should reveal whether or not there is actually a fault in the Blues Cube's reverb tank.

 

[soulman969]

Tony makes a good point. It may or may not be the correct specs for your BC60 but you should get some output from the reverb if that circuit is working properly. If you do it's the tank and replacing it is both simple and inexpensive. Let us know what you find when you try this.

 

[Tony474]

Actually I just looked it up. Mostly the specs are much the same, but the Blues Junior's reverb tank is coded 8EB2C1B, meaning its input impedance is 800 ohms as compared with the 310 ohms of the one in the Blues Cube. Output impedance is the same for both. I'd think it should still work well enough when connected to the BC-60's circuitry to indicate what you need to know.

Just out of interest, this link leads to a page where the 7-character Accutronics reverb codes are explained: http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/main/?skin=sub01_03.html

 

[piaggio]

Ok, I hate to say this anyway, so let's drink the bitter medicine: there wasn't any problem.
Or, better said, my dumbness was the only one.
A/B/C tested, the BC, the Blues Junior , and a VOX AC30, gave , knob cranked, more or less the same amount of reverb.
still too little, for me, but unquestionably what must be the standard amount of reverb : never been more than halfway on the reverb knob on both the vox and the fender, so something must have changed in my ears : too much practicing over Elvis's 50es Sun-RCA collection CD, maybe.
Sorry for wasting everybody's time !
call me dumb, I deserve it this time : more, I've discovered that The solid state BC plays much, much better than the Tube BJ, albeit my ability to judge a sound could raise some doubt , now.
Anyway, thanks to everybody !

 

[Tony474]

Anyway, thanks to everybody !

Di niente! It wasn't a waste of time at all; there might have been a problem and I'm glad we all managed to help you find that there wasn't.

And welcome to the ranks of the privileged and enlightened: the BC-60 is a wonderful amp, isn't it? By the way, do you know the little trick with the Blues Cube of patching the effects send and return sockets with a short lead? It provides a noticeable and useful clean boost in volume if required.

Buona fortuna.

 

[soulman969]

Ok, I hate to say this anyway, so let's drink the bitter medicine: there wasn't any problem.
Or, better said, my dumbness was the only one.
A/B/C tested, the BC, the Blues Junior , and a VOX AC30, gave , knob cranked, more or less the same amount of reverb.
still too little, for me, but unquestionably what must be the standard amount of reverb : never been more than halfway on the reverb knob on both the vox and the fender, so something must have changed in my ears : too much practicing over Elvis's 50es Sun-RCA collection CD, maybe.
Sorry for wasting everybody's time !
call me dumb, I deserve it this time : more, I've discovered that The solid state BC plays much, much better than the Tube BJ, albeit my ability to judge a sound could raise some doubt , now.
Anyway, thanks to everybody !

Well certain posters will disagree but I've played both and a BC60 blows a BJr away. I don't think there's been a better ss amp made than a BC60. Of course I'm prejudiced but I've been playing for over 35 years so I've gone through quite a few amps.

Glad you got your problem worked out. Maybe what your actually looking for is that slap back echo effect you hear on those records. A nice sounding delay pedal can get you there. Or something as simple as a pedal designed for a slap back echo effect.

I actually run two of them on my board. One is running all of the time and is set for a very short delay and one repeat and it's only purpose it to add more depth. The other I set for slap back or any other delay setting I might use. Adding a delay if you don't already may get you more of that effect of spaciousness that reverb does.