Roasted Alder or Roasted Swamp Ash?

[marc2211]

I've been bitten by the bug of a new Partscaster (sadly don't have the skills to make a guitar myself) - it'll be a bit of a Strat tele hybrid.

I made a 'dream' partscaster a few years ago that I just never bonded with - it was a near exact replica of my 'number 1' Strat (a Fender MIJ ST54) but in a different color. I never played it as it was just too close to my main guitar, but not as good. I hated the pickups (Texas Specials) and it was just 'icepick' in every position. I sold it about 4 months after finishing it.

This time I am doing something left field and taking it one step at a time. I want to losely base it on the Garcia Alligator Strat look. I am planning on buying the body and neck from Warmoth. Specs I am thinking of:

- Hardtail 'natural' Strat body
- Maple neck
- Volume and only one tone (with tele control knobs)

Totally undecided on pickups, but I am half thinking of a HSS setup (Pearly Gates, and 2 50's wound SDs), or even a HH config.

My initial question comes down to the wood for the body and neck - for the body I was thinking Swamp Ash (or roasted Swamp Ash), but I saw they also do 'Roasted Alder' which from the pics looked awesome! Wondering if anyone has experience with this and what they think - or if they have any other suggestions?

For the neck, I want it to be Maple, small vintage frets, Clapton (slight v) profile, with an ~10"-14" radius like my Gibsons. As for the other options, I have no idea - (quarter sawn etc?). Wondering if this plan seems sane, or if there any other options people would recommend?

Music I play ranged from blues/SRV/Albert King influenced, though to Led Zep/Classic rock, Stones Open G stuff. Usual setup is a tele on the bridge pickup with the tone rolled down.

Any help appreciated!

 

[CajunJ]

Depends on the swamp it came from.

Just kidding. I’m sure it will be awesome. I’d go swamp only because I think it’s cool that it came from a swamp.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I'm fascinated by the interest in "roasted" wood. There was an interesting interview with Ken Warmoth in a lutherie magazine a while back commenting on roasted wood for necks - he said he didn't have to believe the hype about it, he just had to supply what the market wanted.

I have no thoughts about your wood but would like to know what you think the roasting will do for it.

 

[marc2211]

I'm fascinated by the interest in "roasted" wood. There was an interesting interview with Ken Warmoth in a lutherie magazine a while back commenting on roasted wood for necks - he said he didn't have to believe the hype about it, he just had to supply what the market wanted.

I have no thoughts about your wood but would like to know what you think the roasting will do for it.

I don't believe in tonewoods at all, I think it's all bunkum. For me, it was an issue of practicality and aesthetics.

I was reading a few pages on the web, Warmoth included, that said that if the neck was 'roasted maple', it didn't need a finish on top. Their site states that roasted wood is much more stable and smooth as most of the moisture was gone, leaving a 'natural' hard finish.

I'm not a huge fan of poly finished necks, I have 4 nitro ones, which I like (2 Gibson, 2 fender), but the Fender ones are always sticky.

I like the thought that I could have natural untreated/finished wood, but too am sceptical about the whole 'roasted' thing.

 

[Freeman Keller]

One minor comment from the Warmoth interview was that Ken said roasted maple necks were slightly more prone to splitting at the tuner holes if people don't correctly ream them to fit their tuners. He said they include instructions but....

Whatever you decide, post pictures here when you put it together.

 

[Ronkirn]

why frosted at all? Usually Alder is used for an opaque finish... so the roasting is concealed.. in swamp ash, you could just tint it the color...

r

 

[FendrGuitPlayr]

Don't knock northern ash bodies. They're all that!

 

[bsman]

Don't knock northern ash bodies. They're all that!

Particularly if you're trying to hit one out of the park...

 

[scooteraz]

If you don't believe in tone woods, one is the other, unless you are going for some sort of transparent/translucent finish. Then, usually Swamp Ash usually has better grain. But when I check on Warmoth, the price is the same, as well. For me, I think I would go for roasted alder and a solid, opaque finish of some sort. But that is because I have several swamp ash bodies...and I'm kinda jonesing for Fire Mist Gold...

Otherwise, I think from my roasted necks, that the roasting process adds a very little brightness to the tone, but that is indeed subjective, and I have no direct comparison or frequency spectrum data to prove that. Of course the only way to prove that would be to have 2 otherwise identical guitars, but one in regular materials and the other roasted. Then after looking at frequency response, swapping the pickups and seeing if the differences were the wood or some small item with the pickups. I have to say, I have no interest in that. However, building a new guitar has been looming bigger in my imagination. I just have to decide on which of mine I want to sell to finance that....

 

[RogerC]

Basically what your asking is all based on taste, so your opinion is all that really matters.

 

[erix]

I've built two bodies from roasted alder in this thread

The pine-topped one is my favorite guitar. It is not particularly fine but it just feels good to play and sounds good whether it is plugged in or not. That body came out fairly light but the all-roasted body is a tad lighter. Both bodies are lighter than my other aldrer-bodied guitars.

The roasted alder is tight grained and required no grain fill. I finished it with Tru-oil and it looks remarkably like walnut in the right light. It won't look like Alligator at all!

Working with roasted woods is almost the same as regular. I find that the wood is more brittle and you have to take care drilling your pilot holes for screws as it will chip out if you aren't watching carefully! It routed really nice with a fresh sharp bit.

I would avoid roasted necks of any species - I just don't trust screws into it. You may be ok with threaded inserts and do follow the advice above about drilling your tuner holes the right size.

 

[devrock]

why frosted at all? Usually Alder is used for an opaque finish... so the roasting is concealed.. in swamp ash, you could just tint it the color...

r

I have an over-sized roasted alder blank that I'm using for a V or Explorer build. It's VERY light, which is why I bought it. It's certainly not pretty enough for a clear stain.

 

[doghouseman]

I've been bitten by the bug of a new Partscaster (sadly don't have the skills to make a guitar myself) - it'll be a bit of a Strat tele hybrid.

I made a 'dream' partscaster a few years ago that I just never bonded with - it was a near exact replica of my 'number 1' Strat (a Fender MIJ ST54) but in a different color. I never played it as it was just too close to my main guitar, but not as good. I hated the pickups (Texas Specials) and it was just 'icepick' in every position. I sold it about 4 months after finishing it.

This time I am doing something left field and taking it one step at a time. I want to losely base it on the Garcia Alligator Strat look. I am planning on buying the body and neck from Warmoth. Specs I am thinking of:

- Hardtail 'natural' Strat body
- Maple neck
- Volume and only one tone (with tele control knobs)

Totally undecided on pickups, but I am half thinking of a HSS setup (Pearly Gates, and 2 50's wound SDs), or even a HH config.

My initial question comes down to the wood for the body and neck - for the body I was thinking Swamp Ash (or roasted Swamp Ash), but I saw they also do 'Roasted Alder' which from the pics looked awesome! Wondering if anyone has experience with this and what they think - or if they have any other suggestions?

For the neck, I want it to be Maple, small vintage frets, Clapton (slight v) profile, with an ~10"-14" radius like my Gibsons. As for the other options, I have no idea - (quarter sawn etc?). Wondering if this plan seems sane, or if there any other options people would recommend?

Music I play ranged from blues/SRV/Albert King influenced, though to Led Zep/Classic rock, Stones Open G stuff. Usual setup is a tele on the bridge pickup with the tone rolled down.

Any help appreciated!

Not sure what sound you are going for but.... If you want it to sound sort of like your Tele, go with Swamp Ash. Alder has a thicker sound. Stay with the Maple neck as well.

Also, the thing about a Strat is that the pickups are obviously connected to a plastic pick guard. This has a pretty dramatic effect on the tone of a Strat - IMHO. If you want to remove this variable, get a body routed from Warmoth so that you can connect the pickups directly to the body, i.e. NOT a traditional Strat rout. This will take out some of the "Stratness" as well and give it more of a Tele sound, depending on the pickups.

Good luck.

 

[old wrench]

I like the coloration that torrification brings out .

Pretty colors in that roasted maple and swamp ash.

There are plenty of different studies and papers written on torrification. If anyone wants to get a better understanding of the process and it's effects the info is out there.

I usually use quarter-sawn torrified maple for my necks - no problems with screws holding because I use threaded inserts, and they are very stable necks.

There shouldn't be any question anymore whether or not torrification yields a lighter product; talk to any reputable supplier and they can give you an approximate percentage of weight loss for a particular specie of wood.

If you like the look of torrified, go for it .



I've done my own experiments with "home roasting" and I'm convinced that you can't get the same results by cooking wood in your stove that you get from a proper torrification kiln.

You'll get some interesting results, but I can promise you, they won't be the same as bonafide torrified wood !!!


.

 

[RogerC]

Not sure what sound you are going for but.... If you want it to sound sort of like your Tele, go with Swamp Ash. Alder has a thicker sound.

 

[Guitar MD]

Re Tele sound, I modded my Strat middle switch position to be a more Tele-like combo of mid + bridge. Heresy to many, I imagine, but I just didn’t find myself using middle-only switch position often. I too was after the metallic clang CW sound that Garcia wanted from single coil pickups and to come close to Tele mid-position sound.

As for bodies, the Alligator was swamp ash it seems, so bound to be pricey now. How faithful do you want to keep it, and what’s your budget?


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[Steve Holt]

I was thinking something very similar.

 

[Guitar MD]

Just checked Warmoth, and there seem plenty of fairly reasonable options, including a hybrid swamp ash body that would certainly get you a Tele sound.

Enjoy the project! And be sure to check back in as it prgresses.


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[Sparky2]

Pine.

Trust me.
Pine.

 

[marc2211]

Many thanks everyone for the input - super helpful. Spent the last few days checking out all the options on the Warmoth site and have come down to the following... which differs greatly from my initial plan, but really appeals to me and is NOTHING like anything I have!

Roasted Maple neck (one piece Vintage/Modern)
10-14" radius
Clapton profile (I love v necks)
6130 Gibson style frets (I have the touch of a blacksmith and I sound more in tune on 6130 or 6230 frets)
Black or Turquoise dots (I can't decide on this, but probably black)
11/32" holes for Gotoh SD91 tuners
Black Tusq nut

Roasted Swamp Ash body - clear satin finish (going to ask for a really dark 1pc if possible)
Hardtail (gold HT bridge)
Gold jack
Chrome tuners, strap holders and neck plate

White 3 ply pickguard
One volume, one tone (tele flat top barrel type)
HSS

Pickups will be:
Seymor Duncan JB neck (gold)
(Still looking for single coils to put in mid and nack that would match the humbucker)

Just need to decide on those dots!