Rivera era Fender Super Champ Reverb Questions

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Michael Vilogi, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    Hello there!
    Just snagged my second Super Champ and I am loving it. However, the reverb is not what I recall. Is the reverb in this unit a bit ' different' , almost 'analog delay' like in tone with trail-ish sound? It certainly does not sound like any other fender Reverb I am used to.

    The amp is in great shape and I tried popping new 12ax7, at7 to change tone, but nothing reeaaaly makes it sound 'fenderish'. I am fine with that, as its a great amp, but I want to make sure my amp isnt just on the fritz. The return on the reverb is from that nice $$ compactron so I dont have too many spares to roll in to see if that is weak, however the boost (that is shared from that tube) sounds fine, and I did pop in a sub tube (6k11) that sounded pretty much the same (if not weaker in the reverb section due to tube differences). The tank leads tested fine as well.

    Essentially: Can any one confirm the sound of this reverb being very unique/ short and more 'atmospheric' as opposed to surf like ?

    Really looking for comments from people thats know exactly what it should sound like on a super champ reverb / have one / have lots of time with one. Its just hard to find vids with with reverb on for some reason to compare.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  2. corliss1

    corliss1 Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    Any 40ish year old amp should get an inspection anyway and a cap job. That way you know the state of things for sure, as anything else is really just a guess.

    While I don't think they sound like a Twin's Reverb, it shouldn't sound like what you're describing.
     
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  3. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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  4. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    Right on. I opened it upon buying and board / internal look great for age, I planned on getting recap on necessary electrolytics but was really curious before I invested.

    Funny enough I had one of these years ago , But i played so much fuzz / delay back then I cant even remember a thing about the reverb (and I think that one didnt sound half as sweet as this one so I sold it quickly, this one has a nice huge Altec in it)
     
  5. Hoodster

    Hoodster Friend of Leo's

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    I had one and the reverb was glorious, so I would definitely recommend getting yours checked out.
     
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  6. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    The reverb on mine for such a short tank is glorious - at least as good as my old Princeton Reverb in fact it goes 'too reverby' above 4.

    A 12AU7 in the space where the 12AT7 goes helps both with the reverb and drive - lets you use more reverb on the dial and makes overdrive less fizzy.
     
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  7. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    Good to know. I really needed to sort this out because I purchased another amp at same time and was about to sell that (a Mojotone Lerxst Jubilee) to keep this. Better to vibe out the damage first.

    I recall a terrible noise in the amp when I first turned it on (though the amp is like new it was shipped to me like garbage with no padding). I pulled the tube and reseated it and the noise went away. But, now that I think of it, since it was packed soooo terribly and has a super super super heavy Altec speaker in it, I wouldnt be surprised if the leads in the Tank or the Tank itself was somehow damaged. I know the issue could lie in the board (though it actually looks great, ill upload photo later), but thinking it over I wouldnt be surprised if it was something in tank itself. Problem now if I have to pull this super old Altec out to get to the tank ....
     
  8. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

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    I have a Super Champ, and the reverb is different from other Fenders--somewhat darker, shorter decay.
    Since the circuit is pretty much the same, I think the main difference is the small tank.
    I have a Concert II, which is the same reverb circuit with a larger tank, and it is excellent.

    6C10 and 6K11 are not equal--6C10 is 3 x 12AX7, and 6K11 is two 12AX7 and 1 X 12AU7.
    With a 6K11 in the SC, the 12AU7 section is post-reverb return, pre-master section that drives the phase inverter.
    The 6C10 sounds better I think, but they are pricey.
     
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  9. gionnio

    gionnio Tele-Meister

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    Does your amp have the EV 10" speaker?

    I have a Rivera era Super Champ and thought it sounded odd until I realized that the EV's ceramic magnet was actually pulling the reverb tank towards it as I reinstalled the tank after cleaning up the amp. I swapped the EV with a Tone Tubby Red 10" and mounted the EV in my PR. The EV is a great speaker, but I suspect the magnet's too strong for the champ cabinet. I've read that too strong a magnetic field near the amplifier chassis can have an undesirable effect too, so it might be worth a speaker swap if you have a 10" available to see if it improves things.
     
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  10. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    I dont have an EV, but I DO have a gigantic Altec series II Alnico, so pretty similar in size I think. That really makes me think. When I 'tap' the amp lightly to test for reverb wash its actually quite wet. Can you give me more insight into what you did to correct issue?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  11. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    Yes, shorter and darker nail it. I think ill take a youtube video later and will post link to show this instead of trying to describe, but it sounds like we are in same ballpark.

    As for the 6k11, I was aware it wasnt exact sub but wanted to snag one for cheap (got NOS sylvania for $10 as opposed to 50-100 for 6c10). It didnt improve the reverb and made everything else sound undesirable like you described. But, to use as a test to see if the 6c10 I had may be faulty it worked. And I will hold on to it as a " I need a tube for emergency", but I agree not recommended for tone on this amp. Just blech
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  12. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

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    Agreed on the 6K11.
    There is a gain difference, less dramatic than I thought it would be, but the tone and response of the amp suffer pretty seriously.
     
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  13. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    A 15" speaker ...then you are using a different cab? Do you still have the original reverb tank in there? If the new cab is big enough for a 15" speaker, then you can change over from the
    Accutronics 8AB3C1B at 9.25" long , which although the 3 signifies it is a long decay, it will sound different from a type 9, they are 16.75" long, and will give you a more "normal" surf-infused Fender tone.

    I personally find the SC reverb perfectly adaquate.
     
  14. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    my bad, edited that to correct. It is the 10 in version of the Altec, but its a beast none the less. And yes, original tank.
     
  15. Jowes_84

    Jowes_84 TDPRI Member

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    Hi there. I confirm the reverb sounds fine for my Super Champ with an 12at7 in the driver and an old 6c10 for recovery. Not super-surfy but definitely in a range where I am happy at 4 and thinking about waves at 10. Kind of what most others said already.
     
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  16. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The 425-8A, the 10" version, Alnico V magnet, 3" voice coil....nice! I'd love to get my hands on one of them.
     
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  17. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    Well Im going to pull it and pop a Mojotone 10pr Alnico in. If it improves the 'verb Ill be selling the Altec tomorrow.
     
  18. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

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    I have a JBL K110 in mine, and that definitely ups the ante on output quite a bit.
    More low end, also.
     
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  19. andyc

    andyc TDPRI Member

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    I also just got a stock SC, tubes and all....this is a really cool amp!

    Mine came with the blue label Fender speaker. I have a Tone Tubby 40/40 10" that should be a good choice, but the magnet is *so* close to the reverb tank. Is that bad? I have noticed that the Princeton Reverb II tank is loaded on one of the sides rather than the bottom. Has anyone tried that in an SC?

    This amp is also quiet. No noticeable hum, which begs the question, do the caps really need changing? Would that warm up the tone a bit?
     
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  20. Michael Vilogi

    Michael Vilogi TDPRI Member

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    ***Found the problem

    Took the tank out, one of the springs was broken. Would have expected more noise but apparently it was a fun break like that. New tank on the way.
     
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